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Post by deltav on Mar 15, 2017 13:22:27 GMT
kuriosly Nice job Drones in COADE are designed for one or two attacks/ operations, (not six months plus like our warships), basically disposable craft and can't even be retrieved.This is why to me, this discrepancy in crew between crewed ships and drones makes sense. So this group of guys, could they keep that fleet of Unmanned Drone Carriers operating for 6 months? Nope. But they could for one fight/ battle. If the enemy faints and escapes out to light lagging distance from the control ship, well, not good for the control ship. They don't even have the manpower to repair anything that breaks, or even to retrieve the Drones. To really see these factors come into play in COADE we need more permanence of bases/facilities and world which I hear KSP and some others have incorporated. Eventually I think it will happen, but KSP took something like 6 years to get where it is now. COADE has only been out for 6 or 7 months. From the Crew-MaxTM report... "A pack of drones launched from the same launcher (even at different times) all count crew wise as if they are just one of the individual drones in the swarm. The Gun Monkeys (Gunners), Tweeners (Missile guys), or Glow-Sticks (Nuke Techs) that would have been on your Drone if it was a regular ship, are instead counted as Nose Pickers (Drone techs), and put on your main ship."
Edit: PS. Trying to figure out your crew based on only the numbers. Am I right?
Brass 7 CO (Captain), XO(First Officer), Bread Burner (Cook), Pecker Checker (Doctor), Yoyo (Yeoman), 2 Chops (Logistics Officers)
Ops 8 3 Commos(Comm Officers), 3 Ping Jockeys (Sensor Specialists), 2 Turd Chasers (1 Water and Waste Technician/ 1 Air Circulation Technician)
Snipes 11 Cheng (Chief Engineer), Nuke (Nuclear Reactor Engineer), 6 Glow-Sticks (Nuclear Reactor Technician), 3 Pit Bilges (Radiator Technicians)
Weps 13 Wheel(Pilot), SWO (EW Officer), Tweener (Missle Tech), Spacedale (Pilot), 9 Nose Pickers (Technicians/Mechanics).
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Post by kuriosly on Mar 19, 2017 6:44:51 GMT
kuriosly Nice job Drones in COADE are designed for one or two attacks/ operations, (not six months plus like our warships), basically disposable craft and can't even be retrieved.This is why to me, this discrepancy in crew between crewed ships and drones makes sense. So this group of guys, could they keep that fleet of Unmanned Drone Carriers operating for 6 months? Nope. But they could for one fight/ battle. If the enemy faints and escapes out to light lagging distance from the control ship, well, not good for the control ship. They don't even have the manpower to repair anything that breaks, or even to retrieve the Drones. To really see these factors come into play in COADE we need more permanence of bases/facilities and world which I hear KSP and some others have incorporated. Eventually I think it will happen, but KSP took something like 6 years to get where it is now. COADE has only been out for 6 or 7 months. From the Crew-MaxTM report... "A pack of drones launched from the same launcher (even at different times) all count crew wise as if they are just one of the individual drones in the swarm. The Gun Monkeys (Gunners), Tweeners (Missile guys), or Glow-Sticks (Nuke Techs) that would have been on your Drone if is was a regular ship, are instead counted as Nose Pickers (Drone techs), and put on your main ship."
Edit: PS. Trying to figure out your crew based on only the numbers. Am I right?
Brass 7 CO, XO, Bread Burner, Pecker Checker, Yoyo, 2 Chops
Ops 8 3 Commos, 3 Ping Jockeys, 2 Turd Chasers
Snipes 11 Cheng, Nuke, 6 Glow-Sticks, 3 Pit Bilges
Weps 13 Wheel, SWO, Tweener, Spacedale, 9 Nose Pickers.
Sorry, was in Canada:
i.imgur.com/eCUORIh.png
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Post by deltav on Mar 19, 2017 6:50:58 GMT
Edit: PS. Trying to figure out your crew based on only the numbers. Am I right?
Brass 7 CO, XO, Bread Burner, Pecker Checker, Yoyo, 2 Chops
Ops 8 3 Commos, 3 Ping Jockeys, 2 Turd Chasers
Snipes 11 Cheng, Nuke, 6 Glow-Sticks, 3 Pit Bilges
Weps 13 Wheel, SWO, Tweener, Spacedale, 9 Nose Pickers.
No Wheel, 5 Spacedales not 1, and 6 Nosepickers not 9. Thanks! Need to learn more about how drone crew works. Looks like it's worth it to focus on drones to save crew. Makes sense now that I think about it. To be more consistent with overall crew requirements, certain weapons/modules like turrets, missile launchers, nuclear reactors wouldn't be able to be used on drones.
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Post by antonindvorak on Mar 31, 2017 11:52:46 GMT
Computers can compute Holman transfer orbits easy, they can compute intercepts easy, the AIM-9 Sidewinder missile can intercept enemy aircraft in high-G maneuvers, and barley has a computer to its name, imagine what a computer guided missile could do A computer guided missile could do little more than discriminate better against distractions ... or instead of pointing at the plane, trying to go to where it will be (in which case flying a circle will cause the missile to jank around hard, wasting energy and speed and therefore range). All a ROV in a spaceship can do is go to dangerous places (vacuum, high radiation, too hot for humans) quicker and slowly do simple things that need highly trained operators to perform them; or to be used and discarded. (Say, like drones ...) Look at the team size for driving Curiosity, or MER-B (Opportunity) ... something that could be handled by one or two operator(s) at the rover. Make something idiot proof and the universe will invent a more idiotic idiot. Also remember that the ship's gonna get pelted by fast-flying objects, punctured by lasers and have nukes explode next to it, the only way to make it idiot-proof is to have it explode when it takes damage. :-) Sure, the operation of a Piper Cup, a 1913 Curtiss airplane, a Mark XIV Spitfire, a Boing 787, a X-15, a Me 163, a Me 262 --- they are all the same. You use the controls to direct the control surfaces, which then influence the plane. Engine power is engine power, no matter what engine, and rolling to the right is rolling to the right, no matter what plane ...
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Post by Enderminion on Mar 31, 2017 12:01:33 GMT
a 10Km^2 boron nitride radiator 1mm thick is more similer to a 40m^2 boron nitride radiator 1mm then a Piper Cup compared to a Mark XIV Spitfire, 1Gw and 25Gw reators I use are very similar, they melt at 3100k and have sodium coolant, a diamond thermal rocket is still a diamond thermal rocket no matter how big or small it is. Also the navy skims from the top of a population, they should be able to weed out idiots. ROVs prehaps with "arms" controlled via VR, prehaps not, are not human and don't die when fried. As for missiles, the AIM-9 is really simple, a more complicated missile, maybe with a kilo of computers, should be able to only turn on the seeker when it gets close enough for the sprint.
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Post by antonindvorak on Mar 31, 2017 13:22:19 GMT
You know, just destroy the dock and the fleet will die. Thanks. Sure. But that's true for any fleet. No One said the fleet needed to be orbiting the same planet (at least via game mechanics). There's that pesky little thing called light speed, and the other one, called line of sight. Assume your crew is sitting on Earth, and you have enough ground bases and/or satellites to be able to communicate in any direction as you please (removing that "line of sight" thing for your ground station). The other side spoils for a fight in Lunar orbit so you send your remote fleet to attack. But you will always be ~2.5 seconds behind someone on board, as that is the time the information needs to travel to you and your commands to travel back. And what happens if there is some action on the far side of the moon? Your opponent can take out any satellites that lets you communicate with your remote fleet .. And Mars? At closest approach it's more than 3 minutes, one way, so instead of hanging back 2.5 seconds you hang back between more than 6 and more than 44 minutes. Will you agree that reacting to any enemy manoeuvre 6 minutes later can easily spell death to you? And when Mars is in opposition, the sun is getting in your way, so either no communication or an even longer delay as you bounce it round some other satellites ...
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Post by Enderminion on Mar 31, 2017 13:58:54 GMT
for the moon thing, you can bounce signals off satellites that are 10s of megameters from the moon, well away from any battle.
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Post by kuriosly on Mar 31, 2017 18:10:19 GMT
Plus, automation in this century is good enough that having a few seconds of latency is fine because we are not micromanaging. We are saying something like "course correction in one hour" and the onboard AI handles the real time component. In the future, it's only going to be easier. Plus, with the drone crew requirements. (Hint, every drone does not have an operator) there is no assumption of these drones actually being remote fighters or 100% by wire. It's more like a lt. marshaling his robotic minions
I'll give the the light speed limit one partially. There should be a delay to account for it for new commands sent to drones. Drones can do what they do without guidance, but if they are 3 light seconds out, the operator won't know what happened until at least 3 seconds after the fact, and then another 3 seconds for the time it takes for the new instructions to arrive (PS: this matters on the scale we work at. For example, Titan orbits saturn from about 3.9 light seconds away. If I was doing a drone intercept from titan to another moon of saturn I'd likely be seconds behind in information)
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Post by Enderminion on Mar 31, 2017 19:18:07 GMT
seconds is far to long in the heat of things, and carriers are close enough that lag is low, 300000Km or 300Mm is one light second btw
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Post by kuriosly on Apr 1, 2017 7:04:25 GMT
How many initial drone engagements are within 300Mm?
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Post by kuriosly on Apr 1, 2017 7:19:42 GMT
The starting engagement on one of the first drone missions is 243Mm. Which would be almost a 2 second control loop lag. (Retaking ceres) obviously the carriers are not close enough
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Post by Enderminion on Apr 1, 2017 18:11:49 GMT
I think the drones would follow vauge orders, "attack the enemy", and not "turn to bearing 273 MK54 and fire forward guns, adjust thrusters to hold course"
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Post by argonbalt on Apr 6, 2017 22:07:27 GMT
This should also be obvious, but the constant potential element of "random problem arises" is not so great either for a purely unmanned ship/drone fleet. Add to that "Random human complicated problem arises" and things only get worse for the ai ship.
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Post by Enderminion on Apr 6, 2017 23:05:06 GMT
This should also be obvious, but the constant potential element of "random problem arises" is not so great either for a purely unmanned ship/drone fleet. Add to that "Random human complicated problem arises" and things only get worse for the ai ship. but with people to fix issues... is sorta what you said?
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