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Post by deltav on Feb 24, 2017 16:47:37 GMT
------------------------------Still trying to figure this out. Any ideas would be appreciated.-------------------------- Well here's my second attempt based on relative rarity. www.knowledgedoor.com/2/elements_handbook/element_abundances_in_the_solar_system.htmlThis link has more tables factored differently, but the orders are the same. adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1973SSRv...15..121CElement Abundances in the Solar System ( Number of atoms for every 106 atoms of silicon ) Edit: Compare with Silicon because it is the 2nd most common element in the Earth's crust, but note list is for the entire solar system. Compared to Silicon is standard way this kind of list is numbered in scientific papers. Element | State | Relative Rarity Compared to Silicon (Atom Mole) | Relative Rarity (Mass Fraction) Parts/ Million | Cost in "c"/kg | Mass Fraction * Cost "c"/kg | Hydrogen | liquid | 2.79×10^10 | 705,700
| 6.16 | 4,347,112
| Helium | liquid | 2.72×10^9 | 275,200
| 4.70 | 1,293,440
| Oxygen | liquid | 2.38×10^7 | 5,920
| 0.697 | 4,126.24
| Carbon | solid | 1.01×10^7 | 3,032
| 0.349-22.4 |
| Neon | liquid | 3.44×10^6 | 1,548
| 0.486 | 1,473.552
| Nitrogen | liquid | 3.13×10^6 | 1,105
| 0.641 | 708.305
| Magnesium | solid | 1.074×10^6 | 513
| 4.56 | 2,339.28
| Silicon | solid | 1.00×10^6 |
| 9.18 |
| Iron | solid | 9.00×10^5 |
| 10.1 |
| Sulfur | solid | 5.15×10^5 | 396
| 1.43 | 566.28
| Argon | liquid | 1.01×10^5 | 77
| 0.756 | 58.212
| Aluminum | solid | 8.49×10^4 | 58
| 4.65 | 269.7
| Calcium | solid | 6.11×10^4 | 60
| 5.86 | 351.6
| Sodium | liquid | 5.74×10^4 | 33
| 2.60 | 85.8
| Nickel | solid | 4.93×10^4 | 49
| 9.67 | 473.83
| Chromium | solid | 1.35×10^4 |
| Not Listed? |
| Phosphorus | solid | 1.04×10^4 |
| Not Listed? |
| Manganese | solid | 9550 |
| Not Listed? |
| Chlorine | liquid | 5240 |
| Not Listed? |
| Potassium | solid | 3770 |
| 1.18 |
| Titanium | solid | 2400 |
| 10.9 |
| Cobalt | solid | 2250 |
| 9.91 |
| Zinc | solid | 1260 |
| 3.51 |
| Fluorine | liquid | 843 |
| 0.802 |
| Copper | solid | 522 |
| 7.51 |
| Vanadium | ? | 293 |
| Not Listed? |
| Germanium | ? | 119 |
| Not Listed? |
| Selenium | solid | 62.1 |
| 2.59 |
| Lithium | solid | 57.1 |
| 4.04 |
| Krypton
| liquid | 45 |
| 1.34 |
| Gallium | ? | 37.8 |
| Not Listed? |
| Scandium | ? | 34.2 |
| Not Listed? |
| Strontium | ? | 23.5 |
| Not Listed? |
| Boron | solid | 21.2 |
| 17.40 |
| Bromine | ? | 11.8 |
| Not Listed? |
| Zirconium | ? | 11.4 |
| Not Listed? |
| Rubidium | ? | 7.09 |
| 128.00 |
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There's 46 more, but that's enough to test things. - See more at: www.knowledgedoor.com/2/elements_handbook/element_abundances_in_the_solar_system.html#sthash.6yCmbbTS.dpuf
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Post by David367th on Feb 24, 2017 17:06:46 GMT
Why is it comparing to Silicon?
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Post by Rocket Witch on Feb 24, 2017 18:24:41 GMT
We talked about exchange rates briefly back in the NP-237 thread. If you were to compare the costs of aluminium you will find the exchange rate is 1 USD : 1 c. "c" stands for "currency-unit". [...] Soooo.... credit? There's a symbol for this, the generic currency sign: ¤ So one might say we're trading in scarabs. I think the game currency is a crpyto.
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Post by Enderminion on Feb 24, 2017 19:22:44 GMT
We talked about exchange rates briefly back in the NP-237 thread. If you were to compare the costs of aluminium you will find the exchange rate is 1 USD : 1 c. Soooo.... credit? There's a symbol for this, the generic currency sign: ¤ So one might say we're trading in scarabs. I think the game currency is a crpyto. Yes, Liberty Exchange killed all non crpyto money after they left earth
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Post by deltav on Feb 24, 2017 19:32:24 GMT
Why is it comparing to Silicon? The elements are compared with Silicon because (I just found this out), it is the most abundant element in the earth's crust after oxygen. The list is for the whole solar system, but I think the idea is to highlight minerals. PS I would have expected the most common element after Oxygen to be Carbon, since all life is based on it. Wonder where is the Silicon based life? Any how, off topic. (Slightly Edited) hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Tables/elabund.html
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Post by deltav on Feb 24, 2017 19:35:50 GMT
First thoughts, rarity has something to do with it, as elements at the very bottom of the table are the most expensive. But Hydrogen, the most common element, is many times more expensive than Fluorine, a much rarer gas. So there is something else going on here, not sure yet will think on it. I'm sure there is some type of formula. I'm sure prices are not arbitrary, it doesn't seem like anything in COADE is arbitrary. Will ponder this...
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Post by bigbombr on Feb 24, 2017 20:41:08 GMT
First thoughts, rarity has something to do with it, as elements at the very bottom of the table are the most expensive. But Hydrogen, the most common element, is many times more expensive than Fluorine, a much rarer gas. So there is something else going on here, not sure yet will think on it. I'm sure there is some type of formula. I'm sure prices are not arbitrary, it doesn't seem like anything in COADE is arbitrary. Will ponder this... The ease of transportation is another factor. Hydrogen ha such a low density and tends to leak/boil off a lot, so shipping it is a pain. The final factor is how easy it is to assemble on an atomic scale: fibers are expensive.
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Post by bdcarrillo on Feb 24, 2017 21:25:54 GMT
This is about trying to reverse engineer the pricing system Qswitched created. I see what you're shooting for and I'm tracking now. I would focus on solar system abundance without comparing it to terrestrial rarity.
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Post by deltav on Feb 24, 2017 22:31:12 GMT
This is about trying to reverse engineer the pricing system Qswitched created. I see what you're shooting for and I'm tracking now. I would focus on solar system abundance without comparing it to terrestrial rarity. Great Keep the ideas coming.
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Post by deltav on Feb 24, 2017 22:32:26 GMT
First thoughts, rarity has something to do with it, as elements at the very bottom of the table are the most expensive. But Hydrogen, the most common element, is many times more expensive than Fluorine, a much rarer gas. So there is something else going on here, not sure yet will think on it. I'm sure there is some type of formula. I'm sure prices are not arbitrary, it doesn't seem like anything in COADE is arbitrary. Will ponder this... The ease of transportation is another factor. Hydrogen ha such a low density and tends to leak/boil off a lot, so shipping it is a pain. The final factor is how easy it is to assemble on an atomic scale: fibers are expensive. Yeah that makes sense. Any more ideas?
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Post by newageofpower on Feb 26, 2017 6:24:54 GMT
I think the game currency is a crpyto. In my headcanon, the Liberty Exchange is the only faction to use Cryptocurrency exclusively, but because of it's economic power everyone else's currency is sorta tied to it.
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Post by Easy on Feb 26, 2017 14:44:03 GMT
I think the game currency is a crpyto. In my headcanon, the Liberty Exchange is the only faction to use Cryptocurrency exclusively, but because of it's economic power everyone else's currency is sorta tied to it. I don't think factions would share currencies and may not choose to use the bitcoin model's method of inflation. Having administrate rights over a currency is a big deal, even if your only ability is controlling the injection rate of new credits. But cryptocurrency's major benefit which cannot be understated is it allows secure transactions that cannot be falsified or reversed unless the user's private keys are compromised. Data is a lot easier to transmit than it is to transport paper and metal.
I can see it very likely that each habitat would have its own cryptocurrency. Because it doesn't matter how rich you are on Mercury, your wealth there doesn't mean much to colonists on Saturn's moons.
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Post by deltav on Feb 26, 2017 17:32:04 GMT
In reality: We would imagine that most Space Societies would be virtual dictatorships/ communist/ corporatist in nature, as unlike on Earth 2017, all the means of life are owned by the "government" or the "corporation" that runs that particular dome, series of domes, space station or series of space stations. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On earth, you could wander off into the forest, or find some remote stretch of land and you could live, separate from the mainstream society. You could even become a beggar, eating out of trashcans, and drinking water out of toilets in an extreme situation. But in Space Societies, every cubic meter of air, every gram of food, fluid ounce of water is owned and controlled by the corporation or government . Nothing is free, not even the air. There can be no independence, and most likely every single job will be contracted just like a corporation or government. There will be few if any freelance or private entrepreneurs, as they are priced out the market in the corporate model, or regulated/overtaxed out of the market in the government model. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For that reason, since all means of life are owned by these controlling entities, it is likely that individuals will not practically have currency anyway. They will be contracted to work in exchange for life itself and creature comforts. Their alternative is literally death in space or perhaps exile, with is the same as death. For those reasons, there will most likely not be anything like a currency as we know it, since money is irrelevant for individuals, and even more so for space societies, as currency is subject to manipulation, as we see in 2017 with China's currency. ------------------------------------------------------------------- However, trade is still necessary. Some Space Societies will have advances and tech other Societies will not, or perhaps they will made them more cheaply, or more efficiently than another. So some type of medium of exchange is still needed so... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In COADE cannon: Therefore I would say that COADE currency is really just a computer generated rating of the rated time and materials needed to construct a certain material, module or ship compared to some certain base material that is rare or difficult to produce, and output into a number. This would not be subject to manipulation and would allow for trade without one side or the other having any advantage by being able to manipulate their currency as China does with the US. Just an idea.
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Post by apophys on Feb 26, 2017 19:50:02 GMT
Food, air, & water may not be free, but in a self-sustaining colony, they can be quite cheap, since everything gets recycled and recirculated. They might even be subsidized by taxes and made to be free (social welfare is nice). There's no need for a totalitarian government, even if the government does own most of the facilities. With the education level of space colonists and the necessarily local scale of most government, it is also unlikely for totalitarianism to arise.
There are some aspects of life that would be limited. For example, procreation would be a privilege, not a freedom, because a colony with a given infrastructure can only reliably sustain a certain number of people until it expands (and expansion is not cheap). There will probably be maximum child count limits, and unplanned pregnancies may have mandatory abortions.
Currency will almost certainly be digital, since paper is a waste of material in space. Most likely, each colony will have its own local currency, based on local labor costs (and managed by a local government bank). Trade between colonies will probably be more like barter, based on a common valuable resource like fissiles. So private banks will be unheard of, and currency manipulation will not exist.
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Post by deltav on Feb 26, 2017 20:11:01 GMT
Thumbs up (I love this kind of discussion.) "Totalitarianism is a political system in which the state recognizes no limits to its authority and strives to regulate every aspect of public and private life wherever feasible." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is not a society that forcibly controls the very private right of individuals to procreate, and even would force killing of children or babies born or unborn, by that very definition Totalitarian? Would there be any aspect of public or private life that the ruling body of a Space Society would not have power to control, any limit on their authority? If no, is not unlimited authority and control precisely the very definition of Totalitarianism? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also was not Nazi Germany the most educated society on earth, perhaps in history at that time?
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