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Post by apophys on Feb 18, 2017 0:26:01 GMT
And reactors, right now, are CHEAPER than RTGs, especially with the size of RTGs needed. Let me expand on this point a bit so it really hits home. 1 MW of an RTG legal for this thread costs about 30 Mc. 1 MW of standard reactor costs about 300 c. That is 100,000 times cheaper.
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Post by argonbalt on Feb 18, 2017 0:54:25 GMT
PFFFFFFT WOW!
HEY YOU!
Who me!(Blue armature astronaut)
YEAH YOU ASSHOLE!
WHAT WHO DO YO..
YOU SAVING UP FOR A HAB POD? HMM OR A NICE HOUSE IN A COLONY!
Uh yeah i almost have one hundred k put aside
FUCK THE HAB GET A REACTOR!
What wha? i can't live in tha...
THAT'S RIGHT FUCK THE HAB GET REACTOR! COME ON DOWN TO BIG STAR HELL'S UBER REACTOR CORE DELIVERY PLACEMENT! FOR JUST THAT AMOUNT YOU COULD BE MAKING NEARLY A GW OF JUICE! FOR COLONIES THAT USE ENERGY CREDITS THAT IS A BILLION CREDITS OF PROFIT PER HOUR OR MINUTE!
I still need someplace to liv...
THAT IS RIGHT YOU WILL BE RICH SO COME ON DOWN, REMEMBER FUCK THE HAB FUCK THE HOUSE! FEEL THE RADIATION PRESSURE OF HOT STEAMING CASH!
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Post by randomletters on Feb 18, 2017 1:04:27 GMT
Well if we're only using weapons that don't use any Space Magic™ to function then I think low ROF railguns are going to be king. By my math the power output of this weapon is ~500 kW, and I'm placing it on a ship with a hair over 600 kW of power so I figure that should be fine. As far as RTGs vs Reactors I think it's perfectly fine considering that you're competing with stock components for lethality and range. The far bigger challenge IMO is trying to get armor and 5 km/s delta V out of chemical engines without the use of flourine.
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Post by Easy on Feb 18, 2017 4:50:08 GMT
The far bigger challenge IMO is trying to get armor and 5 km/s delta V out of chemical engines without the use of flourine. only 1km/s has to be acceleration of 0.2g0. You can use a hydrogen resistojet for the other 4km/s. Or just slap on lots of drop tanks.
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Post by someusername6 on Feb 18, 2017 5:07:14 GMT
Here's an amusing submission. I have to imagine the designer got frustrated with not being able to hit the side of a barn at these energy levels, and decided that if they didn't get to aim, they would just explode everything in the area. The payload is a Pu-based nuke -- no engines on the payload as missiles are not allowed, which means it is going to detonate *very* far away from the target. That's still enough nukes to give the enemy Corvette a nice toasty glow and slice -- it wins the first challenge, as long as you click "ignore range" on the weapons first. Back engines modified from apophys' submission, sans gimbals. Side engines inspired by another apophys submission to increase dodge abilities. Plus it looks really pretty. CombustionRocketModule 4.60 km/s LOX LH2 Combustion Rocket UsesCustomName false Reaction LOX LH2 StoichiometricMixtureRatio 1 ThermalRocket ChamberComposition Amorphous Carbon ThroatRadius_m 0.014 ChamberWallThickness_m 0.044 ChamberContractionRatio 6 NozzleExpansionRatio 1000 NozzleExpansionAngle_degrees 10 RegenerativeCooling_Percent 0.25 Injector Composition Lithium PumpRadius_m 0.32 RotationalSpeed_RPM 71 GimbalAngle_degrees 0
CombustionRocketModule 3.02 km/s LOX LH2 Combustion Rocket UsesCustomName false Reaction LOX LH2 StoichiometricMixtureRatio 1 ThermalRocket ChamberComposition Tungsten ThroatRadius_m 0.45 ChamberWallThickness_m 0.0019 ChamberContractionRatio 2.4 NozzleExpansionRatio 3 NozzleExpansionAngle_degrees 12 RegenerativeCooling_Percent 0.04 Injector Composition Aluminum PumpRadius_m 0.455 RotationalSpeed_RPM 120 GimbalAngle_degrees 0
PropellantTankModule 150 t Hydrogen Tank UsesCustomName false Propellant Hydrogen StructureComposition UHMWPE ReactionMass_kg 1.5e+005 HeightToRadiusRatio 20 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
PropellantTankModule 1.19 kt Oxygen Tank UsesCustomName false Propellant Oxygen StructureComposition UHMWPE ReactionMass_kg 1.19e+006 HeightToRadiusRatio 20 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
CrewModule 60 Crew Module UsesCustomName false CrewCapacity 60 Decks 10 StructureMaterial Magnesium ShellThickness_m 0.01
RadioisotopeThermoelectricGeneratorModule 177 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator UsesCustomName false FuelPellet Fuel Promethium-147 Mass_kg 420 Height_m 0.04 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Nickel Chromium Iron NTypeComposition Osmium Length_m 0.011 ExitTemperature_K 750 Coolant Ethane Turbopump Composition Lithium PumpRadius_m 0.01 RotationalSpeed_RPM 14
RadiatorModule 2x7 Calcium Radiator UsesCustomName false Composition Calcium PanelWidth_m 1 Height_m 7 Thickness_m 0.06 ArmorThickness_m 0.03 Panels 2 SurfaceFinish null
RemoteControlModule Default Remote Control Tall UsesCustomName true AspectRatio 8 HomingBehavior PropellantForBoostPhase_Percent 0.65 BoostPhase GuidanceLaw Augmented Proportional Navigation Accelerate true DampingEngineMultiplier 0.5 MidcoursePhase GuidanceLaw Augmented Proportional Navigation Accelerate false DampingEngineMultiplier 0.25 TerminalPhase GuidanceLaw Augmented Proportional Navigation Accelerate true DampingEngineMultiplier 1
CraftBlueprint Large Nuke Projectile Modules Default Remote Control Tall 1 -0.5 null 0 107 kt Boosted Fission Nuke 1 1 null 0 50.0 cm x 0 m Spacer 1 1.0843 null 0 Armor ArmorLayers Silica Aerogel 0.001 0 0 1 1 Nitrile Rubber 0.019 0 0.185 1 1
NuclearPayloadModule 107 kt Boosted Fission Nuke UsesCustomName false CoreComposition Pu-240 ReflectorComposition Alpha-2 Titanium Aluminide SlowExplosive CombustionReaction Silicon Nanothermite DelayComposition Potassium DelayCompositionMassFraction 0 FastExplosive Nitrocellulose CoreMass_kg 10.53 Enrichment_Percent 0.97 HollowCoreRadius_m 0.232 InnerExplosiveWidth_m 0.001 FusionBoost Deuterium Tritium FusionFuelDensity_kg__m3 20 Detonator HardRange_km 0.01 ActivationRange_km 100 MinimumRange_km 1 OverrideTimer_s 0 TargetsShips true TargetsShots false
ConventionalGunModule Large Nuke Projectile Turreted Cannon UsesCustomName false Barrel Composition Vanadium Chromium Steel Length_m 2.9 Thickness_m 0.031 Propellant Composition Cyclonite Mass_kg 51 GrainRadius_m 0.0063 Projectile Composition Martensitic Stainless Steel BoreRadius_m 0.379 Mass_kg 0.001 Tracer null Payload Large Nuke Projectile Loader PowerConsumption_W 6.66e+005 Turret InnerRadius_m 1.2 ArmorComposition Boron Carbide ArmorThickness_m 0.0043 MomentumWheels Composition Aluminum RotationalSpeed_RPM 150 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
CraftBlueprint Liberty Assault Carrier Pu Modules 4.60 km/s LOX LH2 Combustion Rocket 7 0 null 0 150 t Hydrogen Tank 1 1.4401 null 0 1.19 kt Oxygen Tank 1 0 null 0 60 Crew Module 1 0.94007 null 0 177 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 1 132.73 null 0 2x7 Calcium Radiator 4 10.237 60 Crew Module 0 2x7 Calcium Radiator 4 17.672 177 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 0 2x7 Calcium Radiator 4 25.38 177 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 0 177 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 1 133.73 null 0 5.00 m x 0 m Spacer 1 180.19 null 0 Large Nuke Projectile Turreted Cannon 1 159.9 null 0 Default Remote Control 1 164.75 null 0 10x Large Nuke Projectile 3 -0.5 null 0 177 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 1 134.73 null 0 177 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 1 135.73 null 0 3.02 km/s LOX LH2 Combustion Rocket 1 63.631 null 0 3.02 km/s LOX LH2 Combustion Rocket 1 65.301 null 0 3.02 km/s LOX LH2 Combustion Rocket 1 61.786 null 0 Armor ArmorLayers PBO Fiber 0.001 0 0 1 1 Graphite Aerogel 0.25 0 0 1 1 PBO Fiber 0.001 0 0.95 1 1 Graphite Aerogel 0.25 0 0.95 1 1 Osmium 0.086 0 0.95 1 1
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Post by lieste on Feb 18, 2017 6:28:00 GMT
Well if we're only using weapons that don't use any Space Magic™ to function then I think low ROF railguns are going to be king. By my math the power output of this weapon is ~500 kW, and I'm placing it on a ship with a hair over 600 kW of power so I figure that should be fine. As far as RTGs vs Reactors I think it's perfectly fine considering that you're competing with stock components for lethality and range. The far bigger challenge IMO is trying to get armor and 5 km/s delta V out of chemical engines without the use of flourine. I went a similar way, but have squeezed 17.7km/s out of the available (though higher) power budget, for 20.5t and 102kc. It makes level 1 and 2 challenges easy, but is still wholly inadequate for the Vesta Overkill mission profile. I might need to dial it back to increase armour and improve delta-v a little (both are deeply marginal at present), mostly because of the high cost of the RTGs in use, although the weight of power and weapon is below 31t the cost of these is above 33Mc. - Probably some scope for reductions here hopefully.
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Post by someusername6 on Feb 18, 2017 6:52:28 GMT
Slightly more serious version, that can actually win the variant with the cutter: mount many of these on the nose of the ships instead, and ignore range again. CombustionRocketModule 4.60 km/s LOX LH2 Combustion Rocket UsesCustomName false Reaction LOX LH2 StoichiometricMixtureRatio 1 ThermalRocket ChamberComposition Amorphous Carbon ThroatRadius_m 0.014 ChamberWallThickness_m 0.044 ChamberContractionRatio 6 NozzleExpansionRatio 1000 NozzleExpansionAngle_degrees 10 RegenerativeCooling_Percent 0.25 Injector Composition Lithium PumpRadius_m 0.32 RotationalSpeed_RPM 71 GimbalAngle_degrees 0
CombustionRocketModule 3.02 km/s LOX LH2 Combustion Rocket UsesCustomName false Reaction LOX LH2 StoichiometricMixtureRatio 1 ThermalRocket ChamberComposition Tungsten ThroatRadius_m 0.45 ChamberWallThickness_m 0.0019 ChamberContractionRatio 2.4 NozzleExpansionRatio 3 NozzleExpansionAngle_degrees 12 RegenerativeCooling_Percent 0.04 Injector Composition Aluminum PumpRadius_m 0.455 RotationalSpeed_RPM 120 GimbalAngle_degrees 0
PropellantTankModule 150 t Hydrogen Tank UsesCustomName false Propellant Hydrogen StructureComposition UHMWPE ReactionMass_kg 1.5e+005 HeightToRadiusRatio 20 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
PropellantTankModule 1.19 kt Oxygen Tank UsesCustomName false Propellant Oxygen StructureComposition UHMWPE ReactionMass_kg 1.19e+006 HeightToRadiusRatio 20 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
CrewModule 60 Crew Module UsesCustomName false CrewCapacity 60 Decks 10 StructureMaterial Magnesium ShellThickness_m 0.01
RadioisotopeThermoelectricGeneratorModule 177 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator UsesCustomName false FuelPellet Fuel Promethium-147 Mass_kg 420 Height_m 0.04 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Nickel Chromium Iron NTypeComposition Osmium Length_m 0.011 ExitTemperature_K 750 Coolant Ethane Turbopump Composition Lithium PumpRadius_m 0.01 RotationalSpeed_RPM 14
RadiatorModule 2x7 Calcium Radiator UsesCustomName false Composition Calcium PanelWidth_m 1 Height_m 7 Thickness_m 0.06 ArmorThickness_m 0.03 Panels 2 SurfaceFinish null
RemoteControlModule Default Remote Control Tall UsesCustomName true AspectRatio 8 HomingBehavior PropellantForBoostPhase_Percent 0.65 BoostPhase GuidanceLaw Augmented Proportional Navigation Accelerate true DampingEngineMultiplier 0.5 MidcoursePhase GuidanceLaw Augmented Proportional Navigation Accelerate false DampingEngineMultiplier 0.25 TerminalPhase GuidanceLaw Augmented Proportional Navigation Accelerate true DampingEngineMultiplier 1
ConventionalGunModule 28mm Turreted Cannon UsesCustomName false Barrel Composition Vanadium Chromium Steel Length_m 3.2 Thickness_m 0.027 Propellant Composition Octogen Mass_kg 0.047 GrainRadius_m 0.0012 Projectile Composition Osmium BoreRadius_m 0.014 Mass_kg 0.004 Tracer Molybdenum Payload null Loader PowerConsumption_W 6.6e+005 Turret InnerRadius_m 0.19 ArmorComposition Osmium ArmorThickness_m 0.03 MomentumWheels Composition Osmium RotationalSpeed_RPM 4000 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
AmmoModule 10000x 28mm Cannon Round UsesCustomName false SuppliedModule 28mm Turreted Cannon AmmoBay Capacity 10000 Stacks 20 ArmorComposition Aluminum ArmorThickness_m 0.005
RadiationShieldModule 8.00 m Diameter 6.00 mm Radiation Shield UsesCustomName false Composition Osmium Dimensions_m 4 0.006
CraftBlueprint Liberty Assault Carrier Ex Modules 4.60 km/s LOX LH2 Combustion Rocket 7 0 null 0 150 t Hydrogen Tank 1 1.4401 null 0 1.19 kt Oxygen Tank 1 0 null 0 60 Crew Module 1 0.94007 null 0 177 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 1 132.73 null 0 2x7 Calcium Radiator 4 10.237 60 Crew Module 0 2x7 Calcium Radiator 4 17.672 177 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 0 2x7 Calcium Radiator 4 25.38 177 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 0 177 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 1 133.73 null 0 177 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 1 134.73 null 0 177 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 1 135.73 null 0 5.00 m x 0 m Spacer 1 180.19 null 0 28mm Turreted Cannon 5 159.9 null 0 3.02 km/s LOX LH2 Combustion Rocket 1 72.342 null 0 8.00 m Diameter 6.00 mm Radiation Shield 1 176.26 null 0 3.02 km/s LOX LH2 Combustion Rocket 1 74.51 null 0 3.02 km/s LOX LH2 Combustion Rocket 1 70.184 null 0 10000x 28mm Cannon Round 1 159.9 null 0 Armor ArmorLayers PBO Fiber 0.001 0 0 1 1 Graphite Aerogel 0.25 0 0 1 1 PBO Fiber 0.001 0 0.95 1 1 Graphite Aerogel 0.25 0 0.95 1 1 Osmium 0.086 0 0.95 1 1
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Post by concretedonkey on Feb 18, 2017 10:33:13 GMT
I don't get the explanation about the trained technicians. Surely people trained to operate them will be ubiquitous, after all just about every high efficiency drive system is either an electric engine requiring a lot of power (reactor) or an NTR. It just seems a bit of an artificial restriction.
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Post by leerooooooy on Feb 18, 2017 11:03:34 GMT
Added a 15kJ armor requirement (1g@5.48km/s), but the giant laser module can serve as armor equivalent. The additional dry mass shouldn't affect the posted designs much. Since this game is a "simulation", your requirement is nigh impossible to satisfy consistently. Some needleguns fire payloads with weights in the milligrams and kinetic energies below 10kJ, yet can perforate 100 m of solid osmium
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Post by Easy on Feb 18, 2017 12:27:57 GMT
I don't get the explanation about the trained technicians. Surely people trained to operate them will be ubiquitous, after all just about every high efficiency drive system is either an electric engine requiring a lot of power (reactor) or an NTR. It just seems a bit of an artificial restriction. It is a challenge for people to use RTGs and materials they wouldn't normally use or build. The credit cap allows for a little more than one MW power. The entire points is to prevent people from grabbing a module from the standards thread that was discovered and optimized by someone else. In regards to the technician excuse think of the little cutter as a dumbed down spaceship that a monkey could drive. No radiation hazards, you can park it in a garage for a year or two and at worst the RTG needs replacement. The average and below average IQ and mostly untrained spacers can run to this ship. Even easier if Space Traffic Control gives them a flight plan to input in their computer.
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Post by Easy on Feb 18, 2017 12:32:44 GMT
Added a 15kJ armor requirement (1g@5.48km/s), but the giant laser module can serve as armor equivalent. The additional dry mass shouldn't affect the posted designs much. Since this game is a "simulation", your requirement is nigh impossible to satisfy consistently. Some needleguns fire payloads with weights in the milligrams and kinetic energies below 10kJ, yet can perforate 100 m of solid osmium make something that can survive a single 11mm railgun that fires 1g projectiles at 5.48km/s. It only has to live for a few seconds. The random nature of things means sometimes the first hit will kill anyways so just try to get it so it works okay most of the time.
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Post by concretedonkey on Feb 18, 2017 13:49:16 GMT
I don't get the explanation about the trained technicians. Surely people trained to operate them will be ubiquitous, after all just about every high efficiency drive system is either an electric engine requiring a lot of power (reactor) or an NTR. It just seems a bit of an artificial restriction. It is a challenge for people to use RTGs and materials they wouldn't normally use or build. The credit cap allows for a little more than one MW power. The entire points is to prevent people from grabbing a module from the standards thread that was discovered and optimized by someone else. In regards to the technician excuse think of the little cutter as a dumbed down spaceship that a monkey could drive. No radiation hazards, you can park it in a garage for a year or two and at worst the RTG needs replacement. The average and below average IQ and mostly untrained spacers can run to this ship. Even easier if Space Traffic Control gives them a flight plan to input in their computer. I'm not sure the untrained spaceman are really worth the additional credits you are going to have to pour in the program, instead of just fielding a small normal spaceship for one tenth of the price and quite a bit more performance + 2 3 trained techs. But its your show, you don't want reactors, then I'll just take it as an artificial restriction and that's it. Thing is I'm terrible with RTGs so I'm not sure I'll be able to join in.
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Post by hyno111 on Feb 18, 2017 14:26:43 GMT
Not sure about the railgun, other requirements are met.
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Post by someusername6 on Feb 18, 2017 14:44:33 GMT
Thing is I'm terrible with RTGs so I'm not sure I'll be able to join in. You (and everyone else) are welcome to use the RTGs in my submissions on this thread, either for your own, either as a starting point for designing yours. I sure know I have loaded and modified many of the forum designs.
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Post by newageofpower on Feb 18, 2017 14:46:56 GMT
Since this game is a "simulation", your requirement is nigh impossible to satisfy consistently. Some needleguns fire payloads with weights in the milligrams and kinetic energies below 10kJ, yet can perforate 100 m of solid osmium Hmm. A quick calculation shows my HV Osmium Flect gun firing 71mg Os grains at 205km/s delivers about 1.492 megajoules per shot and is a viable weapon against any kind of practical armor. Of course, my 1.9 mj sandcaster deals far less damage per shot, something is borked ;_; But yes, something like a 211km/s lithium or my 212 km/s graphogel flect gun (the worst offender, with only 600j/shot) simply shouldn't penetrate superheavy monolithic armor.
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