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Post by Easy on Jan 28, 2017 13:19:38 GMT
Is it possible to have coilguns lighter than 6 kg (excluding turret) with muzzle velocities above 2.88 km/s? For microdrones (sub 100 kg), I find cannons hard to beat (this appears to be their only use though). Here's one. 12 km/s in 1.27 kg, excluding turret and ammo. I made it with minimum power draw (100 kW), but this way it breaks physics even on the lowest loader setting. If you care about physics compliance, it'll need modification. CoilgunModule 100 kW 7mm Turreted Coilgun UsesCustomName false PowerConsumption_W 1e+005 Coil Composition Zirconium Copper WireRadius_m 0.0041 NumberOfTurns 50 NumberOfLayers 1 NumberOfStages 1 BarrelArmorThickness_m 0 Armature Composition Magnetic Metal Glass BoreRadius_m 0.0035 Mass_kg 0.001 Tracer Silver Payload null Loader PowerConsumption_W 10 Turret InnerRadius_m 0.022 ArmorComposition Nitrile Rubber ArmorThickness_m 0.01 MomentumWheels Composition Platinum RotationalSpeed_RPM 81000 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
Thank you for that design. Drone coilguns have been eluding me. A comment about magnetic metal glass is due to its unique alloy nature it softens long before it melts. So significant heating on the projectile will result in material failure before it reaches melting temperature.
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Post by deltav on Jan 31, 2017 20:05:22 GMT
I tell you what, laser are pretty kick@ss. I just made a not very efficient 300MW laser, put it on a pretty weak ship, and its ruling.
Are lasers just that awesome? Or are lasers just overpowered in game?
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Post by caiaphas on Jan 31, 2017 20:27:35 GMT
I tell you what, laser are pretty kick@ss. I just made a not very efficient 300MW laser, put it on a pretty weak ship, and its ruling. Are lasers just that awesome? Or are lasers just overpowered in game? Told you. Lasers will basically always get first strike in any engagement and will usually easily disable enemy weapons before they're destroyed themselves (sidenote: the armor on the stock 11 mm railgun usually survives for a while, I need to look up what it's made of), and will therefore more or less always dictate the flow of battle (by which I mean every tactical and even many strategic-level decisions ultimately center around how can I get my weapons systems into range of the enemy laser ship before they're taken apart themselves).
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Post by lieste on Jan 31, 2017 21:27:03 GMT
35cm Boron Carbide.
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Post by lieste on Jan 31, 2017 21:27:41 GMT
I tell you what, laser are pretty kick@ss. I just made a not very efficient 300MW laser, put it on a pretty weak ship, and its ruling. Are lasers just that awesome? Or are lasers just overpowered in game? Told you. Lasers will basically always get first strike in any engagement and will usually easily disable enemy weapons before they're destroyed themselves (sidenote: the armor on the stock 11 mm railgun usually survives for a while, I need to look up what it's made of), and will therefore more or less always dictate the flow of battle (by which I mean every tactical and even many strategic-level decisions ultimately center around how can I get my weapons systems into range of the enemy laser ship before they're taken apart themselves). Always for small values of always.
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Post by deltav on Feb 1, 2017 2:09:19 GMT
It just seems to me like COADE is turning too much like Star Trek/ Star Wars (and I love both by the way) without the hyperdrive/ warp.
I thought this is supposed to be "real space combat" you know? Much more Alien (nukes, grenades, flame throwers, and caseless rounds), or the New Battlestar Galactica (nukes, guns, cannons, missiles), than phasers, lasers and handwavium energy weapons.
Maybe lasers are really the best thing going, but it seems kinda a letdown to me. I mean why in the world bother with having to carry ammo, missiles, drones, etc, if you can just shoot magic light beams instead?
It looks like at this point in COADE, lasers are king, but is this really the most accurate view of what space combat would really be like?
I just don't know. I guess I wondering if this is all there is. If the key to COADE is who can build the biggest and best laser, it's kinda a let down for me. Am I the only one?
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Post by newageofpower on Feb 1, 2017 2:25:10 GMT
Am I the only one fed up with FRUIT BY THE FOOT™ Not only does raspberry blast taste great, but banana-banana does too!
EAT FRUIT NOT BY THE INCH BY-THE-FOOT™
Currently:
Lasers are powerful and useful, yes. Pure Missiles will beat Pure Lasers (if you read -any- of the threads on laggy missile spam you would know this) and guns are somewhat useful as a drone armament/PD weapon, and as a supporting element to lasers and missiles.
In the future:
Guns will become hugely more useful with composite barrel/turret armor, electric motor-enabled turning, and composite barrel reinforcement (bracing). Will they make lasers and missiles go away? Definitely not.
The best way to make lasers pointless would to add some ludicrously laser-resistant material (pre-nerf Sillica Aerogel comes to mind) that is both cheap and lightweight, but have minimal kinetic resistance. Unfortunately, no such material comes to mind.
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Post by ross128 on Feb 1, 2017 2:28:52 GMT
Well-designed missiles can still beat laser boats credit-for-credit and kilogram-for-kilogram. They've just got to boost in real hot to get through the kill zone, and depending on the boat (and/or missiles) in question, frame rates will likely be your limiting factor long before you start to fall behind in cost/tonnage. This is the latest iteration on the anti-laser missile I've been designing. I use a MIRV drone to boost it in at around 6km/s, meaning it can save all of its on-board dV for a long terminal burn, hitting at around 10-12km/s depending on how much turning (or wobbling) it had to do. It costs 189 credits, and each drone carries 200 of them. If I really need to, I can get about 600 in the air and still chug through the combat simulation eventually. If I wasn't limited by frame rates, I could fire 5,291 of these for each MCr that the enemy ship costs and still call it "cost effective" (assuming the drone and mothership make it back home anyway). In short, I can Honor Harrington them back to the stone age.
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Post by vegetal on Feb 1, 2017 2:34:43 GMT
if you can just shoot magic light beams instead? It's not magic, it's SCIENCE!!!1 I guess it makes sense, as the battlefield is now the great void, with huge distances and no obstacles. A weapon that inflicts damage at lightspeed is obviously king there. But talking strictly about the game, I found out lasers aren't the ultimate meta weapon. They are necessary, but not the main means to engage the enemy, it's missiles. It's actually too easy to build a cheap missile capable of defeating GW lasers, to the point my "meta" fleet only has 100 MW lasers tops, in order to be able to use flares effectively. The usual ship is a missile cruiser, with a drone carrier to tackle survivors. So yeah, the game is actually quite diverse right now.
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Post by darkwarriorj on Feb 1, 2017 2:36:20 GMT
It just seems to me like COADE is turning too much like Star Trek/ Star Wars (and I love both by the way) without the hyperdrive/ warp. I thought this is supposed to be "real space combat" you know? Much more Alien (nukes, grenades, flame throwers, and caseless rounds), or the New Battlestar Galactica (nukes, guns, cannons, missiles), than phasers, lasers and handwavium energy weapons. Maybe lasers are really the best thing going, but it seems kinda a letdown to me. I mean why in the world bother with having to carry ammo, missiles, drones, etc, if you can just shoot magic light beams instead? It looks like at this point in COADE, lasers are king, but is this really the most accurate view of what space combat would really be like? I just don't know. I guess I wondering if this is all there is. If the key to COADE is who can build the biggest and best laser, it's kinda a let down for me. Am I the only one? Problem is that realistic doesn't mean guns, cannons, missiles and nukes at all, as it turns out. Well, I mean, it still involves missiles and nukes, but only "realistic" as a genre (which doesn't make too much sense to me TBH) enforces the idea that it must be guns, nukes, cannons, flamethrowers, grenades, stuff we have today. Like, there's two different forms of realistic - realistic the aesthetic, and realistic as in true to reality and performance. What disappoints you is that realistic as in true to reality and performance does not match up with realistic the aesthetic. Sometimes, reality is the weird one out. Actually, I am overall on team missile. Seems to me that the key to CoaDE as it currently stands is who can build the most effective micromissile, and then can launch enough of them to just lolnope absolutely anything in their path. Missiles are cost, mass, range and just about everything effective over lasers at the current moment I find. But this is due to the game as it currently stands, not the game as it probably will become. Even if the game remains like this forever, reality will not because there's several things this game doesn't have that reality would. One being that we don't start combat in orbit around an asteroid in reality - or at least it seems to me that we wouldn't. This would strongly tilt things towards the uber death kinetic run by missile buses. The other is when I mentioned lasers are actually weaker than they're supposed to be - if the game modeled them impulse shock effects, the coolness factor and the effectiveness factor of lasers would skyrocket. Similar for allowing laser ranges to go further than an arbitrary 1000km. The only looser here is guns, and even they can still possibly have a well defined role if smarter targeting was in place, making guns the best anti-missile weapon. I myself must admit though, tracer bullets are the coolest thing ever and it is a shame that they are not particularly practical weapons of war for direct ship to ship combat. Even then though, I get the feeling you have it mixed up. Magic phasors aren't them lasers; magic phasors are those tracer railguns! I mean, in star trek we can see that bloody beam. With tracer bullets we can see that bloody beam! Honestly, it is a shame that the phasors-rails proved to be less than decisive a weapon. They even have the appropriate star wars/trek level range! Ok, so I realized I told you this, but haven't given you any reason to feel hyped about space warfare. The problem is that the "realistic" aesthetic was cool; and simple death-beams of death is not cool. But that's because the former had time to develop into a coherent vision of coolness in your head yet, while the later you don't have yet. If I have time, I will edit this post to detail the latter image for you, because IMO it is still bloody awesome. But in the meantime, I recommend reading Rocketpunk Manifesto's Space Warfare series for a sense of what is likely to be the case.
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Post by Enderminion on Feb 1, 2017 3:41:17 GMT
It just seems to me like COADE is turning too much like Star Trek/ Star Wars (and I love both by the way) without the hyperdrive/ warp. I thought this is supposed to be "real space combat" you know? Much more Alien (nukes, grenades, flame throwers, and caseless rounds), or the New Battlestar Galactica (nukes, guns, cannons, missiles), than phasers, lasers and handwavium energy weapons. Maybe lasers are really the best thing going, but it seems kinda a letdown to me. I mean why in the world bother with having to carry ammo, missiles, drones, etc, if you can just shoot magic light beams instead? It looks like at this point in COADE, lasers are king, but is this really the most accurate view of what space combat would really be like? I just don't know. I guess I wondering if this is all there is. If the key to COADE is who can build the biggest and best laser, it's kinda a let down for me. Am I the only one? Problem is that realistic doesn't mean guns, cannons, missiles and nukes at all, as it turns out. Well, I mean, it still involves missiles and nukes, but only "realistic" as a genre (which doesn't make too much sense to me TBH) enforces the idea that it must be guns, nukes, cannons, flamethrowers, grenades, stuff we have today. Like, there's two different forms of realistic - realistic the aesthetic, and realistic as in true to reality and performance. What disappoints you is that realistic as in true to reality and performance does not match up with realistic the aesthetic. Sometimes, reality is the weird one out. Actually, I am overall on team missile. Seems to me that the key to CoaDE as it currently stands is who can build the most effective micromissile, and then can launch enough of them to just lolnope absolutely anything in their path. Missiles are cost, mass, range and just about everything effective over lasers at the current moment I find. But this is due to the game as it currently stands, not the game as it probably will become. Even if the game remains like this forever, reality will not because there's several things this game doesn't have that reality would. One being that we don't start combat in orbit around an asteroid in reality - or at least it seems to me that we wouldn't. This would strongly tilt things towards the uber death kinetic run by missile buses. The other is when I mentioned lasers are actually weaker than they're supposed to be - if the game modeled them impulse shock effects, the coolness factor and the effectiveness factor of lasers would skyrocket. Similar for allowing laser ranges to go further than an arbitrary 1000km. The only looser here is guns, and even they can still possibly have a well defined role if smarter targeting was in place, making guns the best anti-missile weapon. I myself must admit though, tracer bullets are the coolest thing ever and it is a shame that they are not particularly practical weapons of war for direct ship to ship combat. Even then though, I get the feeling you have it mixed up. Magic phasors aren't them lasers; magic phasors are those tracer railguns! I mean, in star trek we can see that bloody beam. With tracer bullets we can see that bloody beam! Honestly, it is a shame that the phasors-rails proved to be less than decisive a weapon. They even have the appropriate star wars/trek level range! Ok, so I realized I told you this, but haven't given you any reason to feel hyped about space warfare. The problem is that the "realistic" aesthetic was cool; and simple death-beams of death is not cool. But that's because the former had time to develop into a coherent vision of coolness in your head yet, while the later you don't have yet. If I have time, I will edit this post to detail the latter image for you, because IMO it is still bloody awesome. But in the meantime, I recommend reading Rocketpunk Manifesto's Space Warfare series for a sense of what is likely to be the case. As a trekkie nerd, phasor range is 300,000km or one light second. if guns had good targeting then they would be better CIWS then laser because guns can kill faster then lasers aganist laser armour and kinetic armour is heavy
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Post by theholyinquisition on Feb 1, 2017 3:45:50 GMT
It just seems to me like COADE is turning too much like Star Trek/ Star Wars (and I love both by the way) without the hyperdrive/ warp. I thought this is supposed to be "real space combat" you know? Much more Alien (nukes, grenades, flame throwers, and caseless rounds), or the New Battlestar Galactica (nukes, guns, cannons, missiles), than phasers, lasers and handwavium energy weapons. Maybe lasers are really the best thing going, but it seems kinda a letdown to me. I mean why in the world bother with having to carry ammo, missiles, drones, etc, if you can just shoot magic light beams instead? It looks like at this point in COADE, lasers are king, but is this really the most accurate view of what space combat would really be like? I just don't know. I guess I wondering if this is all there is. If the key to COADE is who can build the biggest and best laser, it's kinda a let down for me. Am I the only one? Yes. This is realistic. Realistic combat is not necessarily, and is often the direct opposite of fun and engaging. Putting down insurgencies isn't like COD, hospitals are not like House, and realistic space combat isn't like Star Trek OR alien. No handwavium whatsoever is involved. Everything in this game is based off an extrapolation of real life. Would you like qswitched to exchange realism for fun?
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Post by argonbalt on Feb 1, 2017 6:04:56 GMT
ARMA can be absolutely hilarious because of how serious everything is, which in it's own way is enjoyable, in general i think you need to have a more German sense of "Spaß!" than american "Make me cool man please!" fun.
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Post by apophys on Feb 1, 2017 6:53:38 GMT
Am I the only one fed up with deltaV? I didn't respond to his latest posts since he 'conceded defeat' and 'apologized' a few weeks back, because I've been working from 9AM - 9PM every fucking day, but it looks like he's simply gargling his balls spewing the same shitty arguments that have been shut down repeatedly by a vast amount of forumites. read the fucking dev blog you retarded troll. Could we remain civil here, please? I find it distasteful to read this kind of caustic material. It is quite clear that deltav is slow to get up to speed on the meta, but that is not a reason to flame and insult. Be more patient with people.
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Post by apophys on Feb 1, 2017 13:51:30 GMT
Sigh. You're pouring oil on the fire...
Stubborn differences in opinion can be frustrating. Just make sure to do testing ingame with custom modules to base your opinions on (because preconceived notions are often wrong). Qswitched thought lasers and MPDs wouldn't be very significant; we can see how far off that expectation was. If there's a particular thing you need, but you don't have enough experience to optimize, ask on the forum (or on the discord chat) and you'll get a decent one from somebody.
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