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Post by jasonvance on Jan 23, 2017 6:28:09 GMT
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Post by caiaphas on Jan 23, 2017 6:45:55 GMT
Bugger, thanks. I think it's the color of the links that does it for me, fades right into the background.
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Post by deltav on Jan 24, 2017 15:56:13 GMT
So I'm starting to get the differences between Railguns and Coilguns.
Railguns work best with the smallest possible payload due to larger payload overheating the rails and are more accurate than Coilguns overall. That makes railguns better for point defense or extreme range sniper shots than coilguns.
Coilguns work better with the largest practical payload due to magnetic oversaturation. This makes them perfect for large ship to ship barages.
Overall we really need some type of ai vs ai multiplayer forum. Then each side can set up their custom weapons and really see which is best.
Those who love lasers can set them up vs those who think let's say coilguns are the king of ship to ship weapons, and see which is really best.
All with a certain tonnage and cost restrictions of course.
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Post by Easy on Jan 24, 2017 19:57:40 GMT
- Lasers have range and are quite simply unfair against stock designs which can have all of their turrets burned off at long range even at a few dozen MW. But if you armor against lasers, it takes the bite out, also lasers tend to not be able to kill capital ships. I will ignore 100 GW user designs for now.
- Laser is amazing point defense, unless the munitions are armored against laser.
- The poor Stinger drone and other cannon armed drones tend to have their ammunition in the nose attached to the weapon. Overheat that area, and boom, no more drone. Armor the cannon, move the ammunition rearward and suddenly cannon drones can endure the light.
- Coilguns are notable due to their ability to fire very heavy projectiles which cannot be reliably armored against. If it hits, the heavy coilgun can kill. Also it is the best platform to fire micromissiles and flak/nukes.
- Railguns sandblast very well even at hundred kilowatt power levels but don't necessarily kill that fast unless it is against stock ships who put their heavy coilgun abeam their reactor. Good for point defense since most munitions cannot tolerate the sandblaster
- Cannons are mostly for when you don't feel like using a railgun or want to keep power in the low kilowatts.
Overall coilgun is most versatile in terms of options, but you're a fool for not having a laser on your capital ship.
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Post by apophys on Jan 24, 2017 22:42:21 GMT
I notice people focus on the heavy-shot coilguns more than sandblaster coilguns, though both are viable in their own niche. I argue that sandblaster coilguns are better than sandblaster railguns, due to the much better velocity achieved from low-power sand coilgun designs (and their much lower cost). - also lasers tend to not be able to kill capital ships. I will ignore 100 GW user designs for now.
It seems a ship optimized to carry laser drones will be able to use them to kill a similar-cost capital ship without trouble.
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Post by The Astronomer on Jan 24, 2017 23:11:38 GMT
I tried to armor my modules with 1 cm-thick aramid fiber, but even 30 MW laser could still kill it in less than ~20 sec.
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Post by theholyinquisition on Jan 24, 2017 23:17:28 GMT
I notice people focus on the heavy-shot coilguns more than sandblaster coilguns, though both are viable in their own niche. I argue that sandblaster coilguns are better than sandblaster railguns, due to the much better velocity achieved from low-power sand coilgun designs (and their much lower cost). - also lasers tend to not be able to kill capital ships. I will ignore 100 GW user designs for now.
It seems a ship optimized to carry laser drones will be able to use them to kill a similar-cost capital ship without trouble. So if coilguns do launch, heavy-shot, and sandblast better, what's the point of railguns?
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Post by argonbalt on Jan 24, 2017 23:20:01 GMT
Jan 24, 2017 14:57:40 GMT -5 Easy said: armor against lasers, it takes the bite out, also lasers tend to not be able to kill capital ships. I will ignore 100 GW user designs for now.
I heavily disagree, my most capable Laser Destroyer designs rarely use any more than a few GW's and i only have that for the insanely useful MPD drives the reactors can power, likewise well it might not dramatically slice a ship in half, burning off the rockets and letting a bundle or two of highs speed missiles finish off even the toughest ships is hardly difficult.
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Post by apophys on Jan 24, 2017 23:39:01 GMT
So if coilguns do launch, heavy-shot, and sandblast better, what's the point of railguns? So far as I've seen player designs, exorbitantly expensive railguns can have 100+ km/s velocities, which coilguns have difficulty approaching (sandblast coilguns normally stick around 50 km/s). I see no other point of railguns currently.
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Post by lawson on Jan 25, 2017 2:55:40 GMT
I see no other point of railguns currently. Rail-gun ammo is orders of magnitude cheaper than coil-gun ammo. To the point that carrying 100,000-1,000,000 shells is practically free. Rail-gun shells are usually narrow, long, and made of super dense materials, so they have better armor penetration that most coil-gun shells. Rail-guns also tend not to violate conservation of energy as baddly, so they're a bit better for realism right now.
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Post by caiaphas on Jan 25, 2017 3:18:20 GMT
I see no other point of railguns currently. Rail-gun ammo is orders of magnitude cheaper than coil-gun ammo. To the point that carrying 100,000-1,000,000 shells is practically free. Rail-gun shells are usually narrow, long, and made of super dense materials, so they have better armor penetration that most coil-gun shells. Rail-guns also tend not to violate conservation of energy as baddly, so they're a bit better for realism right now. I might love coilguns to death and back (I mean, come on, I have over a dozen variants of them right now) but yeah, railguns are kings of range and cost-effectiveness. You might need to hurl a few thousand grains of amorphous carbon sand at your enemies to kill them as opposed to fewer than a hundred one-kilo rounds from a coilgun, but the sand costs around 20 mc as opposed to tens to a few hundred credits per coilgun brick, so the railgun still wins out on that.
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Post by theholyinquisition on Jan 25, 2017 3:32:14 GMT
Rail-gun ammo is orders of magnitude cheaper than coil-gun ammo. To the point that carrying 100,000-1,000,000 shells is practically free. Rail-gun shells are usually narrow, long, and made of super dense materials, so they have better armor penetration that most coil-gun shells. Rail-guns also tend not to violate conservation of energy as baddly, so they're a bit better for realism right now. I might love coilguns to death and back (I mean, come on, I have over a dozen variants of them right now) but yeah, railguns are kings of range and cost-effectiveness. You might need to hurl a few thousand grains of amorphous carbon sand at your enemies to kill them as opposed to fewer than a hundred one-kilo rounds from a coilgun, but the sand costs around 20 mc as opposed to tens to a few hundred credits per coilgun brick, so the railgun still wins out on that. But coilguns are superior sandblasters, especially if you use the new-added in materials.
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Post by caiaphas on Jan 25, 2017 3:39:55 GMT
I might love coilguns to death and back (I mean, come on, I have over a dozen variants of them right now) but yeah, railguns are kings of range and cost-effectiveness. You might need to hurl a few thousand grains of amorphous carbon sand at your enemies to kill them as opposed to fewer than a hundred one-kilo rounds from a coilgun, but the sand costs around 20 mc as opposed to tens to a few hundred credits per coilgun brick, so the railgun still wins out on that. But coilguns are superior sandblasters, especially if you use the new-added in materials. ...wait, what new materials? And I don't know enough about railguns to make that determination, honestly. I do have a very nice 10 MW snub-nosed coilgun accurate to around 15 km on enemy flak missiles that fits into a two-meter box, though, so they're great for space.
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Post by newageofpower on Jan 25, 2017 4:16:26 GMT
So far as I've seen player designs, exorbitantly expensive railguns can have 100+ km/s velocities, which coilguns have difficulty approaching (sandblast coilguns normally stick around 50 km/s). I see no other point of railguns currently. I has a collaboration offer. PM?
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Post by deltav on Jan 26, 2017 21:21:34 GMT
I think overall lasers are probably the most versatile ship mounted weapon, although I still voted for coilguns.
Even if you design a coilgun or railgun that reaches out to 1000km, the turret becomes problematic that aiming speed is slow, and also due to the low angle range esp against drones and missiles.
Also although the power requirements are low compared to lasers for the power of the weapon, by the time you power the turret/momentum wheels, the power requirements become very "laser like".
So overall perhaps lasers are the most versatile weapon overall.
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