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Post by Pttg on Mar 1, 2017 3:15:36 GMT
We need laser-sniping lasers, now. That is, lasers designed to have range superiority to enemy lasers and disable their doom lasers before their doom lasers can damage your hull.
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Post by deltav on Mar 1, 2017 3:47:24 GMT
If you can snipe laser optics, that means laser turret armor is useless no? We shall see.
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Post by fenrin49 on Mar 1, 2017 4:00:00 GMT
I would guess that pulssed lasers would become the answer there was an article on atomic rockets about laser warfare with armoured shutters that was pretty interesting
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Post by deltav on Mar 1, 2017 4:05:23 GMT
Yeah pulsed lasers would change the whole laser game.
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Post by deltav on Mar 1, 2017 5:05:44 GMT
On lasers vaporizing projectiles I believe the idea is more to deflect incoming unguided rounds by vaporizing one side - which only needs a small amount of energy - granted with this technology it would also be possible to use beamed power to give projectiles a little bit of terminal guidance while still using a relatively simple monolithic slug - look up that lasers launch assist concept That would work in atmosphere no problem, it would destroy the aerodynamics, and they would crash. But why would this work in space? No air to disrupt their aerodynamics. Plus kinetics don't spend more than a couple seconds at most in "flight". How would a couple seconds of laser fire do anything to stop or redirect a slug?
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Post by Enderminion on Mar 1, 2017 14:38:11 GMT
On lasers vaporizing projectiles I believe the idea is more to deflect incoming unguided rounds by vaporizing one side - which only needs a small amount of energy - granted with this technology it would also be possible to use beamed power to give projectiles a little bit of terminal guidance while still using a relatively simple monolithic slug - look up that lasers launch assist concept That would work in atmosphere no problem, it would destroy the aerodynamics, and they would crash. But why would this work in space? No air to disrupt their aerodynamics. Plus kinetics don't spend more than a couple seconds at most in "flight". How would a couple seconds of laser fire do anything to stop or redirect a slug? A chunk of the shot is vaporized and explodes away from the shot, the force from the explosion shifts the shots trajectory, hopefully enough so that it misses
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Post by argonbalt on Mar 2, 2017 5:23:14 GMT
On lasers vaporizing projectiles I believe the idea is more to deflect incoming unguided rounds by vaporizing one side - which only needs a small amount of energy - granted with this technology it would also be possible to use beamed power to give projectiles a little bit of terminal guidance while still using a relatively simple monolithic slug - look up that lasers launch assist concept That would work in atmosphere no problem, it would destroy the aerodynamics, and they would crash. But why would this work in space? No air to disrupt their aerodynamics. Plus kinetics don't spend more than a couple seconds at most in "flight". How would a couple seconds of laser fire do anything to stop or redirect a slug? Those sparks that shoot off from ships when they are hit with laser fire? That is hyper-sonic molten matter super heated to point that it wants to get the hell out of the way of the laser as fast as possible. Combine that with Newtons third law and with a bit of laser push a slug would be melt-blasting it's way off of your projected course. Especially when ships in motion dodging are putting miles between the original place the shell was going to meet up with you hull and you can begin to see how this would aid in deflecting kinetic rounds. if the bullets or what not are coming from something crazy close than your lasers should be shooting that instead.
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Post by deltav on Mar 2, 2017 6:57:45 GMT
That would work in atmosphere no problem, it would destroy the aerodynamics, and they would crash. But why would this work in space? No air to disrupt their aerodynamics. Plus kinetics don't spend more than a couple seconds at most in "flight". How would a couple seconds of laser fire do anything to stop or redirect a slug? Those sparks that shoot off from ships when they are hit with laser fire? That is hyper-sonic molten matter super heated to point that it wants to get the hell out of the way of the laser as fast as possible. Combine that with Newtons third law and with a bit of laser push a slug would be melt-blasting it's way off of your projected course. Especially when ships in motion dodging are putting miles between the original place the shell was going to meet up with you hull and you can begin to see how this would aid in deflecting kinetic rounds. if the bullets or what not are coming from something crazy close than your lasers should be shooting that instead. With the laser wobble as it now, and the rate of laser ablation that happens with even the strongest lasers... And the short flight time of projectiles measured often in 5 seconds or less, is ablation of incoming kinetic projectiles realistic? Not in COADE as it stands now, as lasers are not able to lock on 1 g round size targets for enough time to melt the material involved. Is such a thing theoretically possible? We need scientific papers for that, or some sort of hard scifi page like Atomic Rockets or something similar. With solid 1 gram slugs, the target is painfully small to target and aim at, and the material is very dense. Even if the slugs could be deflected by a laser, which is a tall order, we could just as easily reason that the computer firing those slugs could adjust for laser deflection just as it does with dodging and the like. Verdict? If a laser has the pinpoint accuracy, range and power to deflect solid hypervelocity slugs from an enemy ship, it should certainly have the pinpoint accuracy, range and power to hit the weapons firing those slugs instead, a far easier goal and better use of offensive power.
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Post by Enderminion on Mar 2, 2017 12:21:56 GMT
Those sparks that shoot off from ships when they are hit with laser fire? That is hyper-sonic molten matter super heated to point that it wants to get the hell out of the way of the laser as fast as possible. Combine that with Newtons third law and with a bit of laser push a slug would be melt-blasting it's way off of your projected course. Especially when ships in motion dodging are putting miles between the original place the shell was going to meet up with you hull and you can begin to see how this would aid in deflecting kinetic rounds. if the bullets or what not are coming from something crazy close than your lasers should be shooting that instead. With the laser wobble as it now, and the rate of laser ablation that happens with even the strongest lasers... And the short flight time of projectiles measured often in 5 seconds or less, is ablation of incoming kinetic projectiles realistic? Not in COADE as it stands now, as lasers are not able to lock on 1 g round size targets for enough time to melt the material involved. With solid 1 gram slugs, the target is painfully small to target and aim at, and the material is very dense. Even if the slugs could be deflected by a laser, which is a tall order, we could just as easily reason that the computer firing those slugs could adjust for laser deflection just as it does with dodging and the like. Verdict? If a laser has the pinpoint accuracy, range and power to deflect solid hypervelocity slugs from an enemy ship, it should certainly have the pinpoint accuracy, range and power to hit the weapons firing those slugs instead, a far easier goal and better use of offensive power. lets say the average 1g slug is 10mm in diameter, that target is a 10mm (0.4in) target, while focusing a large laser onto the target is immposible a small low focus laser can hit the target more easily if spot size is ~0.5m and with varible focus lasers then you can keep the same spot size at the target. And if you laser the bullet early enough then the Dv needed to make it miss is very low. A shot is fired at 100km/s for example and the target is 1000km away and has a width of 50m, the shot is lased at 800km, you need 6.25 m/s to shift its trajectory 50m at that point, because you only ever need half of that or less to make it miss, thats 3.125 m/s you need to shift the trajectory 25m, of course thats skimming the armour so a hair more will increase the travel much more (3.125 to 3.2 adds a whole 0.6m at target) and 3.2 is the maximun to make the shot miss for the 50m diameter craft on the short axis, not worth it to try and make it miss longwise as that (for a 240m long ship) would take a massive 30m/s to skim the ship's armour, divided by 2 because thats the most you will ever need thats still 15m/s
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Post by nerd1000 on Mar 6, 2017 1:38:05 GMT
With the laser wobble as it now, and the rate of laser ablation that happens with even the strongest lasers... And the short flight time of projectiles measured often in 5 seconds or less, is ablation of incoming kinetic projectiles realistic? Not in COADE as it stands now, as lasers are not able to lock on 1 g round size targets for enough time to melt the material involved. With solid 1 gram slugs, the target is painfully small to target and aim at, and the material is very dense. Even if the slugs could be deflected by a laser, which is a tall order, we could just as easily reason that the computer firing those slugs could adjust for laser deflection just as it does with dodging and the like. Verdict? If a laser has the pinpoint accuracy, range and power to deflect solid hypervelocity slugs from an enemy ship, it should certainly have the pinpoint accuracy, range and power to hit the weapons firing those slugs instead, a far easier goal and better use of offensive power. lets say the average 1g slug is 10mm in diameter, that target is a 10mm (0.4in) target, while focusing a large laser onto the target is immposible a small low focus laser can hit the target more easily if spot size is ~0.5m and with varible focus lasers then you can keep the same spot size at the target. And if you laser the bullet early enough then the Dv needed to make it miss is very low. A shot is fired at 100km/s for example and the target is 1000km away and has a width of 50m, the shot is lased at 800km, you need 6.25 m/s to shift its trajectory 50m at that point, because you only ever need half of that or less to make it miss, thats 3.125 m/s you need to shift the trajectory 25m, of course thats skimming the armour so a hair more will increase the travel much more (3.125 to 3.2 adds a whole 0.6m at target) and 3.2 is the maximun to make the shot miss for the 50m diameter craft on the short axis, not worth it to try and make it miss longwise as that (for a 240m long ship) would take a massive 30m/s to skim the ship's armour, divided by 2 because thats the most you will ever need thats still 15m/s If your spot size is bigger than the incoming bullet you can only slow it down, not push it off course.
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Post by Enderminion on Mar 6, 2017 2:12:10 GMT
lets say the average 1g slug is 10mm in diameter, that target is a 10mm (0.4in) target, while focusing a large laser onto the target is immposible a small low focus laser can hit the target more easily if spot size is ~0.5m and with varible focus lasers then you can keep the same spot size at the target. And if you laser the bullet early enough then the Dv needed to make it miss is very low. A shot is fired at 100km/s for example and the target is 1000km away and has a width of 50m, the shot is lased at 800km, you need 6.25 m/s to shift its trajectory 50m at that point, because you only ever need half of that or less to make it miss, thats 3.125 m/s you need to shift the trajectory 25m, of course thats skimming the armour so a hair more will increase the travel much more (3.125 to 3.2 adds a whole 0.6m at target) and 3.2 is the maximun to make the shot miss for the 50m diameter craft on the short axis, not worth it to try and make it miss longwise as that (for a 240m long ship) would take a massive 30m/s to skim the ship's armour, divided by 2 because thats the most you will ever need thats still 15m/s If your spot size is bigger than the incoming bullet you can only slow it down, not push it off course. Aim off-target
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Post by nerd1000 on Mar 6, 2017 2:43:53 GMT
If your spot size is bigger than the incoming bullet you can only slow it down, not push it off course. Aim off-target beam intensity follows a Gaussian distribution. you'll sacrifice much of your power on target doing that, and you'll get the same aiming problems that made you use a wider beam in the first place.
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Post by Enderminion on Mar 6, 2017 2:50:07 GMT
beam intensity follows a Gaussian distribution. you'll sacrifice much of your power on target doing that, and you'll get the same aiming problems that made you use a wider beam in the first place. I never said I knew everything, I am no scientist or engineer, I just think I have good ideas sometimes and hope people prove me wrong
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Post by vegemeister on Mar 6, 2017 4:59:39 GMT
If your spot size is bigger than the incoming bullet you can only slow it down, not push it off course. Should still work if the bullet isn't perfectly symmetrical and pointed right at you.
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Post by The Astronomer on Mar 6, 2017 5:47:45 GMT
Turns out, projectile weapons are the best against missiles!
Lasers for sniping enemy modules, projectiles for additional doom (my graphene railguns fire 1g graphene sands at 80-160 km/s, all with recharge time less than 1 second).
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