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Post by caiaphas on Jan 4, 2017 1:38:05 GMT
Obviously I have some optimizing to do on my coilguns, then. It's the only way for kinetics to retain any degree of usefulness with the standardization of fairly efficient giant death lasers. Keep in mind, these are Point Defense coils; my main battery needleguns all exceed 150km/s. ...the hell kind of power are you putting through them, and the heck are you using for the rails? I can't even get a third of that muzzle velocity.
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Post by newageofpower on Jan 4, 2017 1:39:59 GMT
Those are your sub-gram designs though aren't they? A whipple shield worth it's weight would gobble them like nothing. My osmium needles destroy whipple shielded craft (one passed through a stock gunship's nose armor and exited through an engine nozzle), but tend to do nothing (maybe leave a small glowing circle upon impact) against heavy monolithic plate. I suspect at sufficiently high velocities, the plasma (which the whipple shield shocks the projectile) into doesn't have time to disperse and is still fairly dense.
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Post by David367th on Jan 4, 2017 1:40:58 GMT
It's the only way for kinetics to retain any degree of usefulness with the standardization of fairly efficient giant death lasers. Keep in mind, these are Point Defense coils; my main battery needleguns all exceed 150km/s. ...the hell kind of power are you putting through them, and the heck are you using for the rails? I can't even get a third of that muzzle velocity. You want your barrel to be either Zirconium Copper or Aluminum Copper Lithium with a hefty chunk of Magnetic Metal Glass if my memory serves right, propelling a sub-gram lithium needle. I haven't made one yet, so I could be wrong. Those are your sub-gram designs though aren't they? A whipple shield worth it's weight would gobble them like nothing. My osmium needles destroy whipple shielded craft (one passed through a stock gunship's nose armor and exited through an engine nozzle), but tend to do nothing (maybe leave a small glowing circle upon impact) against heavy monolithic plate. I suspect at sufficiently high velocities, the plasma (which the whipple shield shocks the projectile) into doesn't have time to disperse and is still fairly dense. Do you mind if I could have a look at the designs? I've been wanting to put double bumper whipple and stuffed whipple against weapons like those.
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Post by caiaphas on Jan 4, 2017 1:45:57 GMT
...the hell kind of power are you putting through them, and the heck are you using for the rails? I can't even get a third of that muzzle velocity. You want your barrel to be either Zirconium Copper or Aluminum Copper Lithium with a hefty chunk of Magnetic Metal Glass if my memory serves right, propelling a sub-gram lithium needle. I haven't made one yet, so I could be wrong. Mm. Possibly. I'll check it out, thanks.
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Post by newageofpower on Jan 4, 2017 1:46:37 GMT
Do you mind if I could have a look at the designs? I've been wanting to put double bumper whipple and stuffed whipple against weapons like those. It's a secret~ Unless you're accusing me of speaking lies, in which case prepare to lose all your internet points!
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Post by caiaphas on Jan 4, 2017 1:49:20 GMT
The overpenetration on a 1 kg osmium rod going 15 km/s is so much fun to watch. Oh, one hit cored your ship, punching through half of your fuel tanks and taking out a powerplant and one of your engine nozzles. HAH!
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Post by David367th on Jan 4, 2017 1:56:59 GMT
Do you mind if I could have a look at the designs? I've been wanting to put double bumper whipple and stuffed whipple against weapons like those. It's a secret~ Unless you're accusing me of speaking lies, in which case prepare to lose all your internet points! b-b-but I need to see if my armor is any good against the forums anti-armor designs... cough you know incase multiplayer becomes a thing coughThough honestly I agree that single layer whipple shields get shit on by anything that's not a micrometeorite, and I'd like to see how more advanced whipple shields fare.EDIT: Those are your sub-gram designs though aren't they? A whipple shield worth it's weight would gobble them like nothing. [...] I suspect at sufficiently high velocities, the plasma (which the whipple shield shocks the projectile) into doesn't have time to disperse and is still fairly dense. Especially when double layers are supposed to prevent this exact situation
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Post by The Astronomer on Jan 4, 2017 2:13:20 GMT
I can't seem to get anywhere near these people's weapon speed. I don't know why, but I think if I do, these would have pretty terrible fire rate...
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Post by someusername6 on Jan 4, 2017 2:19:24 GMT
My experience on high speed coilgun design is that you get these speeds by using a minimum weight flak as the payload (10mg explosive, 10mg shrapnel), very thin / tall, and coilguns made of aluminum copper lithium, propelling that payload as carried by magnetic metal glass.
I still haven't optimized this much. I'm waiting / hoping for a patch that makes coilguns respect physics, and maybe allows for projectiles under 1 g, before I jump fully into making coilguns.
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Post by newageofpower on Jan 4, 2017 2:23:34 GMT
My experience on high speed coilgun design is that you get these speeds by using a minimum weight flak as the payload (10mg explosive, 10mg shrapnel), very thin / tall, and coilguns made of aluminum copper lithium, propelling that payload as carried by magnetic metal glass. I still haven't optimized this much. I'm waiting / hoping for a patch that makes coilguns respect physics, and maybe allows for projectiles under 1 g, before I jump fully into making coilguns. The game won't let me get under 100mg of explosive! How do you do it?
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Post by David367th on Jan 4, 2017 2:30:08 GMT
My experience on high speed coilgun design is that you get these speeds by using a minimum weight flak as the payload (10mg explosive, 10mg shrapnel), very thin / tall, and coilguns made of aluminum copper lithium, propelling that payload as carried by magnetic metal glass. I still haven't optimized this much. I'm waiting / hoping for a patch that makes coilguns respect physics, and maybe allows for projectiles under 1 g, before I jump fully into making coilguns. The game won't let me get under 100mg of explosive! How do you do it? Yeah I can't get that either but apparently I can use 1 pg of Lithium as shrapnel.
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Post by someusername6 on Jan 4, 2017 2:37:26 GMT
... that's what I get for doing it from memory. I apparently use *100 mg* of explosive and shrapnel each, rather than 10 mg each. Edited to add: and I have been launching them out of railguns, rather than coilguns, to avoid pains with optimizing stages. Here's what I last had -- pretty sure it can be optimized a bunch: ExplosiveModule 200mg 5cm Needle UsesCustomName true Length_m 0.05 ExplosiveMass_kg 0.0001 ExplosiveComposition Octogen ShrapnelMass_kg 0.0001 ShrapnelComposition Gold Detonator HardRange_km 1 ActivationRange_km 1.33 MinimumRange_km 0 OverrideTimer_s 0 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
CraftBlueprint 5cm Needle Modules 200mg 5cm Needle 1 0 null 0 Armor
RailgunModule 140 MW Needle Railgun UsesCustomName true PowerConsumption_W 1.4e+008 Rails Composition Aluminum Copper Lithium Thickness_m 0.52 Length_m 50 BarrelArmorThickness_m 0 Armature Composition Osmium BoreRadius_m 0.0029 Mass_kg 0.001 Tracer null Payload Needle Loader PowerConsumption_W 10 Turret InnerRadius_m 0.8 ArmorComposition Para-Aramid Fiber ArmorThickness_m 0.05 MomentumWheels Composition Osmium RotationalSpeed_RPM 1500 TargetsShips true TargetsShots false
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Post by lieste on Jan 4, 2017 3:48:52 GMT
Not sure that is a valid design. It fails in multiple ways without the payload, and I can't see how IRL *adding* the needle is supposed to fix such profound failures (841 GPa/505MPa failure in beam deflection mode, 23.5GPa rupture, unless the barrel is intended as part of a one shot NEFP design ). My 'best' practical railguns give 40.2km/s @ 100MW 1g (Beryllium/Am Carbon) or a gun 10x the mass and slightly under 10x the cost at 61.6km/s @300mw 1g (Be/Am Carbon) - these optimised for small target accuracy rather than ultimate high speed or supercapital maximum engagement range (though they are still close to the maximum distance for the v0 they are slightly 'off'
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Post by someusername6 on Jan 4, 2017 4:03:45 GMT
I'd hope that adding the needle means that the geometry of the sabot is changed, and that affects the issues causing the warnings. But I'm not familiar with the underlying physics to be sure; maybe allowing this weapon to work is also a bug.
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Post by amimai on Jan 4, 2017 10:37:19 GMT
yea... wipples don't do anything at all vs high velocity rounds... if I remember correctly wipple shields have a peak efficiency against projectiles of 10km/s and loose 15% efficiency for every 5km/s over that here is a gallery of my testing vs 130km/s 600mg rail gun boat composite - my normal Di/AMc(gap)/Bo/Ggel/Os Pure Wipple - 4x1cm wipple AMc(g)/AMc/Ggel/AMc(g)/AMC Altered Wipple - Diamond coated filled wipple Di/AMc/Ggel/AMC(g)/Bo Nitrile onion - NIrubber onion armour NIr(g)/NIr(g)/NIr(g)/NIr(g)/AMc imgur.com/a/itOPRbasic summary: any armour with Di/AMc coating managed to quite happily bounce all the needles and survived indefinitely (over 5000 rounds no damage) any armour without Di/AMc coating was shredded only composite armour managed to survive being shot by both needle guns and nuke cannons intact
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