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Post by shurugal on Dec 9, 2016 0:52:31 GMT
so, between Meta-Lasers, hypervelocity KKV missiles, and NEFPs, is there any point in armoring ships at all? My current offensive ship sports 6 1.5 GW lasers ring-mounted on the nose, with a 10-km/s missile-coilgun between them. The focused attention of the lasers destroys any turret, even one with 1m-thick aerogel, instantly, at any range I have tried so far (settled on 200km because i don't feel like waiting for my coilgun missiles to travel 1 Mm for each kill). The lasers output exactly 50 MW, and are focused to get a 1m diameter spot at 170 km, which i felt gives me a nice balance between boiling off aerogel at range and slicing and dicing up close. The coilgun will put a missile massing 100-70 kg (depending on burn time available) into a target at 10-12 km/s. Every single armor configuration i have tested, including a meter of iridium, results in a through-and-through shot, with enough spall to destroy most components inside the hull on the way. The armor on the missiles allows them to shrug off the attention of six of my lasers long enough to burn a perfect intercept against any non-accelerating target at 200km. If the missile is allowed to expend all its fuel, it hits with sub-meter precision and accuracy every time, at every range. The current armor package on it is so tough, in fact, that against stock ships, the missile will occasionally (i've seen it happen twice since i put this armor on it) survive penetrating the target (albeit, out of fuel). can anyone design an armor package that would allow a ship to survive these weapons? Screenshots with specs follow, can provide user designs data if anyone wants it for testing.
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Post by newageofpower on Dec 9, 2016 1:15:54 GMT
No reasonable amount of armor can survive a heavy KE weapon.
I've penetrated a 50m Osmium Target before (that's in the hundreds of GigaCredits lol)
That laser looks digustingly efficient (I have a hard time bringing my own lasers above 3.2%), but you should really aim for a 3m+ Mirror to maximize intensity at range.
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Post by amimai on Dec 9, 2016 1:27:50 GMT
Inner 3mm osmium 3m graphite aerogel 3cm boron 1m gap 3cm amorphous carbon 2cm diamond Outer
This should work, at least for a bit.
I have seen boule thick layers of these take hits from NEFP and come out fine.
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Post by The Astronomer on Dec 9, 2016 1:37:14 GMT
Excuse me, what is NEFP?
For me, I have no idea about OP weapons because, mainly, my factions are not ridiculous energy consumer. Maybe I will try making them later.
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Post by teeth on Dec 9, 2016 1:40:29 GMT
I have yet to find any practical use for armor, I just cover my ships in a .5mm thick layer of graphite aerogel for cosmetic purposes and to conceal inner components from direct targeting. Any weight or cost in armor can instead be spent on more missiles, drones, or lasing power. NEFP is nuclear explosively formed penetrator, it uses a nuclear explosion to turn a piece of the desired material into an extremely fast molten/plasma jet that goes through armor like one of those water jet metal cutters.
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Post by amimai on Dec 9, 2016 1:41:46 GMT
Nuclear explosion formed penetrator, or an osmium brick flung with nuclear fire in laymans terms
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Post by shurugal on Dec 9, 2016 1:48:30 GMT
Inner 3mm osmium 3m graphite aerogel 3cm boron 1m gap 3cm amorphous carbon 2cm diamond Outer This should work, at least for a bit. I have seen boule thick layers of these take hits from NEFP and come out fine. tried that combo already (saw your post in the other thread). out of 5 target ships, only one was not a through-and-through kill, and all 5 were one-shot kills.
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Post by The Astronomer on Dec 9, 2016 1:51:57 GMT
I have yet to find any practical use for armor, I just cover my ships in a .5mm thick layer of graphite aerogel for cosmetic purposes and to conceal inner components from direct targeting. Any weight or cost in armor can instead be spent on more missiles, drones, or lasing power. NEFP is nuclear explosively formed penetrator, it uses a nuclear explosion to turn a piece of the desired material into an extremely fast molten/plasma jet that goes through armor like one of those water jet metal cutters. For me, I just use that simple boron whipple shield against conventional railguns (it does a good job with fuel tank survival, at least make them stay safe for long enough until the end of the fight) and a graphite shielding against laser. Might change it to diamond + graphite aerogel later. 10 kg coilguns and KKVs are still extremely deadly for these ships. My words: GRIM REAPER PROJECTILES ARE HEADING HERE! DO SOMETHING QUICK!
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Post by shurugal on Dec 9, 2016 1:53:49 GMT
That laser looks digustingly efficient (I have a hard time bringing my own lasers above 3.2%), but you should really aim for a 3m+ Mirror to maximize intensity at range. got a chuckle out of that XD. For mirror size, i deliberately tuned it to make a 1m diameter spot at 3/4 my desired engagement range. at this range, the Halcyon will burn through all stock missiles in about half a second per missile. Anything close than ~100 km gets pinprick-lasered to death, anything between 100 and 200 km loses aerogel at an alarming rate, unless it is several meters thick, and i can snipe any and all turrets, regardless of armor, at every range i have tried it so far.
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Post by The Astronomer on Dec 9, 2016 1:54:45 GMT
Inner 3mm osmium 3m graphite aerogel 3cm boron 1m gap 3cm amorphous carbon 2cm diamond Outer This should work, at least for a bit. I have seen boule thick layers of these take hits from NEFP and come out fine. tried that combo already (saw your post in the other thread). out of 5 target ships, only one was not a through-and-through kill, and all 5 were one-shot kills. Uh. I think in real life space battle would be death-death battles. 0% survival rate... JUST LOOK AT THESE OP WEAPONS AND THESE PUNY ARMORS. WE NEED ARMOR RESEARCHER!
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Post by shurugal on Dec 9, 2016 2:03:26 GMT
I should also note that one of the ships in another test took the shot on its slope instead of the flat nose, and was instantly accelerated sideways to several hundred meters per second (i saw the impact point on the cone, but no exit wound, possible bounce??). Another one took a slightly off-center shot and was sent into a ~200 rpm end-over-end spin.
even if we do find armor capable of bouncing these shots, the crew still does not have good survival odds, unless the ship is large and heavy enough to absorb the momentum transfer without smearing them all over the bulkheads.
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Post by jasonvance on Dec 9, 2016 2:05:52 GMT
Armor isn't really worth it... the only thing that could possibly be worth armoring against is nuke flash... massed lasers will beat you ton for ton as will kinetic kill of any type. The reason to armour against nuke flash is to avoid being insta gibbed from 1,000km by 50-100Mt worth of nukes. A small amount of nuke flash armor will greatly increase the MT value required to destroy your fleet and force the enemy fleet to send a minimum value of Mt in together (else it will be absorbed for 0 damage). I wouldn't go over 5% total ship mass though. Play around with 1,000km detonations of the standard 600kc 9.61Mt nuke see how many of them your ships can survive then ask is that a cost effective solution to my fleet comp when compared to bringing x% more ships/drones/missiles? I've been in the process of figuring out where the break even point on my laser drones is in terms of nuke flash armour, if it is worth it, and what material is most optimal cost wise... I personally don't put much merit in armouring against it as you can just send one drone forward to sacrifice itself in intercept but nuke flash armoring is at least semi-effective credit for credit against nukes.
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Post by shurugal on Dec 9, 2016 2:14:40 GMT
Inner 3mm osmium 3m graphite aerogel 3cm boron 1m gap3cm amorphous carbon 2cm diamond Outer This should work, at least for a bit. I have seen boule thick layers of these take hits from NEFP and come out fine. <emphasis mine> I missed an important feature. adding the 1m gap allowed this armor package to withstand the first shot. The second, however, went in through the same hole and made the kill.
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Post by amimai on Dec 9, 2016 2:20:29 GMT
Well that's the best I got, so far have not found anything stronger then that vs kinetics for weight...
I guess you could make it thicker, but I don't think it gains much more structure past that thickness.
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Post by shurugal on Dec 9, 2016 2:23:42 GMT
update: ran a test with 10 of the updated armor carriers. Results were 5 two-shot kills and 5 one-shot kills. fleet closed from 200 to 100 km during test, but i was manually firing one-shot salvos so i could see results after each impact.
looks like we've got a 50% effectiveness. finding a way to land shots on the slope instead of the flat would probably improve this, but i don't know how much, since the missile is so damn precise.
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