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Post by deskjetser on Dec 9, 2016 1:09:06 GMT
@ The Astronomer As far as I know, CDE only simulates one piece and one material nozzle and chamber compositions. This is not the case in reality. I'll hopefully be making a post on this in the future, but for now all I will say is this; Since in CDE we are forced to use one material and one thickness for the nozzle and chamber, we are left with the necessity of using either rare or exotic materials without having to factor in construction methods. But in essence yes you're right, as far as i'm aware, much less exotic materials are used in reality. Then again, what i'm saying could be utter nonsense! I'm no expert, only speculation here! @ shurugal I posted the information you're after here, hope this helps! And certainly for acceptably sized engines where a small package is needed, around 3kg0 is very attractive; I just went bonkers making these test engines, to see the limits. Funny thing is though, they're not yet near the limits!
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Post by newageofpower on Dec 9, 2016 1:17:13 GMT
Boron, whilst fairly rare on Earth, is hardly a rare material.
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Post by shurugal on Dec 9, 2016 1:44:57 GMT
@ The Astronomer As far as I know, CDE only simulates one piece and one material nozzle and chamber compositions. This is not the case in reality. I'll hopefully be making a post on this in the future, but for now all I will say is this; Since in CDE we are forced to use one material and one thickness for the nozzle and chamber, we are left with the necessity of using either rare or exotic materials without having to factor in construction methods. But in essence yes you're right, as far as i'm aware, much less exotic materials are used in reality. Then again, what i'm saying could be utter nonsense! I'm no expert, only speculation here! @ shurugal I posted the information you're after here, hope this helps! And certainly for acceptably sized engines where a small package is needed, around 3kg0 is very attractive; I just went bonkers making these test engines, to see the limits. Funny thing is though, they're not yet near the limits! *facepalm* overlooked it entirely. the smallest engine is similar to the one i use for main thrust on my capitals. Slightly better than twice the thrust, but also slightly over twice the fuel consumption (mine is ~5 Mn @ 1 t/s), so the scaling makes sense.
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Post by acetylcholine on Dec 9, 2016 5:56:57 GMT
Could you post more information on the design of the Simien thruster? I've been having trouble getting the same thrust to mass ratio in my own designs.
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Post by n2maniac on Dec 9, 2016 9:00:10 GMT
(Looking at others' cool and sciency stuffs and realize how stupid I am) ...why am I using boron and diamond in literally every situation? I thought real world engines use normal metals? Anyways, thanks for the great post. Diamond and boron costs for manufactured goods of complex shapes ingame are dirt cheap compared to real life. Metals are feasible to manufacture with, much more so for ones that melt at lower temperatures (look up the process to form tungsten filaments if you are ever bored).
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Post by newageofpower on Dec 9, 2016 9:10:39 GMT
Diamond and boron costs for manufactured goods of complex shapes ingame are dirt cheap compared to real life. Metals are feasible to manufacture with, much more so for ones that melt at lower temperatures (look up the process to form tungsten filaments if you are ever bored). Holy. Fucking. Shit.Well, it's not as insane as the Flourine Martyrs. Going to bed, will respond to Amai tomorrow.
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Post by deskjetser on Dec 10, 2016 4:08:05 GMT
@ newageofpower I'm no expert on material abundance throughout the universe, so you could be very correct; But i'd still call a solid 5t one piece chamber and nozzle of pure boron, exotic! @ shurugal Yes, I probably didn't cover it too well in the original thread, but that's exactly what I was getting at! Possible scaling from 12MN to 120MN is so very nearly perfect, it makes me want to tear up! @ acetylcholine If you're really struggling you can post what you're working on here, and I can give you a nudge in the right direction. If you're still not happy with the results then i'll post the Simien for you to copy; It's important to know how to make improvements yourself, rather than just reaching an 'end goal' design. My engines aren't that great anyway!
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Post by acetylcholine on Dec 10, 2016 6:45:17 GMT
@ newageofpower I'm no expert on material abundance throughout the universe, so you could be very correct; But i'd still call a solid 5t one piece chamber and nozzle of pure boron, exotic! @ shurugal Yes, I probably didn't cover it too well in the original thread, but that's exactly what I was getting at! Possible scaling from 12MN to 120MN is so very nearly perfect, it makes me want to tear up! @ acetylcholine If you're really struggling you can post what you're working on here, and I can give you a nudge in the right direction. If you're still not happy with the results then i'll post the Simien for you to copy; It's important to know how to make improvements yourself, rather than just reaching an 'end goal' design. My engines aren't that great anyway! Here. I feel like there's a lot of possible weight that can be cut off by shrinking the pump, and subsequently the gimbal, and the nozzle may not be entirely optimized either, but it's the best I've gotten it to so far.
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Post by The Astronomer on Dec 10, 2016 6:57:08 GMT
@ newageofpower I'm no expert on material abundance throughout the universe, so you could be very correct; But i'd still call a solid 5t one piece chamber and nozzle of pure boron, exotic! @ shurugal Yes, I probably didn't cover it too well in the original thread, but that's exactly what I was getting at! Possible scaling from 12MN to 120MN is so very nearly perfect, it makes me want to tear up! @ acetylcholine If you're really struggling you can post what you're working on here, and I can give you a nudge in the right direction. If you're still not happy with the results then i'll post the Simien for you to copy; It's important to know how to make improvements yourself, rather than just reaching an 'end goal' design. My engines aren't that great anyway! > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_the_chemical_elements
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Post by deskjetser on Dec 10, 2016 7:09:51 GMT
acetylcholine Your link takes me to this thread! The Astronomer I was under the impression it was rare, but i'm not well read on alot of stuff so I don't want to debate on what I don't know!
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Post by acetylcholine on Dec 10, 2016 7:12:22 GMT
acetylcholine Your link takes me to this thread! The Astronomer I was under the impression it was rare, but i'm not well read on alot of stuff so I don't want to debate on what I don't know! Woops! I have no idea how that even entered my clipboard. Here. (This time I carefully checked and previewed this.)
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Post by The Astronomer on Dec 10, 2016 7:19:01 GMT
acetylcholine Your link takes me to this thread! The Astronomer I was under the impression it was rare, but i'm not well read on alot of stuff so I don't want to debate on what I don't know! Summary: Boron is the most abundance of the three 'rare' lightweight elements (not synthesized in stars) and is even more common than the widely-used Uranium.
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Post by newageofpower on Dec 10, 2016 7:25:00 GMT
deskjetser Its hard to find on Earth because our atmosphere has an ridiculous amount of Oxygen in it and weathers Boron easily. Then it forms various complex chemicals/compounds and becomes a pain to gather in comparison to most industrial products. In space, however, it should be more readily available.
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Post by deskjetser on Dec 10, 2016 9:10:00 GMT
The Astronomer & newageofpower Thank you for making me aware of this. acetylcholine Well you're certainly right about being able to shave off injector weight; But making it smaller would be the incorrect way of doing things! Here is what can be done to greatly improve TMR:- Bumping up the injector radius to 1.2m, decreasing its RPM to 20 and switching to lithium. This will save you a huge amount of weight while maintaining coolant flow of 2.07t/s. - Setting gimbal inner radius to 1.7m to compensate and changing to potassium momentum wheels running at 900RPM. This is all assuming you have a reactor core height of 4.8cm, since you didn't show that in your picture. You can also loose 1kg of control rod mass! Doing this will leave you with savings of 138kg and 100c per engine; And in case I missed anything here is what changes I made. Hope this helps!
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Post by deskjetser on Dec 11, 2016 16:37:16 GMT
Stay tuned people, i've been working on CDE engine nozzle theory and will be posting my findings here shortly. Within a day or two. It's going to take a while to collect all the data; But if my working theory is correct, nozzle design is going to become alot less guess work and more scientific than ever before! My end goal is to turn this thread into a go to place for engine design; So expect alot of editing and reworking on the OP.
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