|
|
Post by SevenOfCarina on Aug 23, 2016 16:27:26 GMT
Kinetic Kill Missiles :
So, from what I've gathered of the game, from my limited knowledge considering I'm not a tester ( Though I'd like to be ....... Please 🙏🏾 ? ), it appears that there is no in game provision for purely kinetic kill warheads. I'm not talking about a paltry ~ 1 km/s of velocity
difference. I'm talking about missile launches before you decelerate into your target planet's/moon's orbit - something like ~ 10 km/s of velocity difference if your going retrograde.
So, if you call it out, and assume even a 1 ton missile with cold gas thrusters striking a target at a paltry 5 km/s relative you're still talking about something like 12.5 GJ of ouch. Plus, although it is a contact warhead only, 1 ton of missile is not much of a burden to a 10 kiloton warship, even if you take a hundred of them. Plus, you can actually make these things stealthy - not much in the way of heat emission if you're using only cold has thrusters for manuevering. I don't think they'll be noticed in the heat of battle.
Precision targeting will still be a huge issue, though.
On the other hand, is it efficient to use drones that are nearly out of delta v as kinetic impactors?
|
|
aiyel
Junior Member
Posts: 83 
|
Post by aiyel on Aug 23, 2016 17:43:46 GMT
Flak missiles are, technically speaking, KKVs.
As for their operational use, currently the only thing stopping you from using them this way is scenario design.
I'll let those more knowledgeable soak to the issue of stealthing them
|
|
|
|
Post by SevenOfCarina on Aug 23, 2016 18:29:55 GMT
But since when do flak missiles have the sheer penetration power of a 10 ton missile plowing through your armor at 10 km/s ?
|
|
|
|
Post by qswitched on Aug 23, 2016 18:55:36 GMT
The biggest problem is targeting. Even at around 2+ km/s velocity difference, trying to hit a target is like trying to hit one bullet with another bullet. It gets even worse if the enemy tries to dodge. And at 5+ km/s it may be beyond the realm of feasibility. A tiny imperfection in targeting software or in the thrust will cause you to miss by kilometers. That said, you actually can do exactly what you ask for. Some of the scenarios involve entering orbit at high velocities, so if you can pull it off, there is nothing stopping you from doing it. Technically, none of the base missiles designs are like that, but you can simply design a missile without a payload to achieve what you want. A final consideration is that what you described would actually be TOO powerful. Weapons with that much kinetic energy tend to pass straight through all armor, though the ship, through the back facing armor, and back out into space. And unless your missile hits a critical component, it's wasted. Plus most ships come with heavy redundancy, multiple powerplants, crew compartments, etc. This issue is detailed in this post: childrenofadeadearth.wordpress.com/2016/06/24/what-to-shoot/About drones, some of the testers do use them as kamikazies when they run low on delta-v, yes. Personally, I prefer to rendezvous and refuel them, but it's up to you. |
|
|
|
Post by SevenOfCarina on Aug 24, 2016 12:07:13 GMT
Well, you could always just have the missile detonate into a lot of pellets. At least some of them are bound to hit. They could be used as theatre weapons - the precision issues with misses in the kilometres kind of tend to go away if you're dispersing your pellets into a circle of a radius in the tens of kilometres. That could damage or destroy enemy drones and prevent enemy craft from launching more. It might force enemy craft to dodge, spending valuable delta v, or putting them into the path of your shipborne weaponry. If you have enough stuff in the path of enough enemy ships, who knows, you just might get lucky.
On a side note, if the targeting software on these missiles can be made smart enough, they could possibly know when to trigger the detonation that disperses the pellets. If a missile actually does make contact, however improbable that may be, that could mean a few thousand ten kilogram pellets ripping through a ships delicate innards.
|
|
|
|
Post by qswitched on Aug 24, 2016 17:03:40 GMT
Correct. This is exactly how flak missiles work in game.
|
|
|
|
Post by SevenOfCarina on Aug 25, 2016 3:32:11 GMT
Wait, flak missiles have an impact speed in the range of 10 km/s ? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't they just projectile weapons with a dispersal warheads ?
|
|
|
|
Post by qswitched on Aug 25, 2016 6:00:12 GMT
The impact speed of any missile is independent of the payload entirely. It depends entirely on the scenario and also on how much delta-v your missiles have (which can be adjusted in ship design based on the propellant tanks used).
For instance, if you are in a retrograde intercept around Mars at 5 km/s (which is reasonable) while an enemy is in a prograde orbit exactly opposite you, then anything you launch has a 10 km/s impact speed by default. Of course, if you are in similar orbit as your target, the impact speed will be close to 0, which means your impact speed is limited by the delta-v of your missiles. Alternatively, if you are clever with orbital mechanics, you can vastly exceed that limit.
|
|
|
|
Post by SevenOfCarina on Aug 25, 2016 10:47:42 GMT
Ah, apologies. I meant that the flak missile alone has 10 km/s of delta v.
On a side note, is it efficient to rendezvous and pickup missiles that have missed and have no delta v left, and refuel them if they run on the same stuff in your propellant tanks? Is it even possible?
|
|
|
|
Post by thinespree on Aug 25, 2016 11:53:59 GMT
If you have the Delta-v to plot rendezvous with the missiles that missed there targets and ran out of fuel your eather over building your ships or your taking SSIP ships into a home orbit battle.
But then again if you are planing to refuel them why put warheads on them and not cannons? (Aka why are you using missiles when you want to use drons?(Then again i might be misreading this entirely))
|
|
|
|
Post by SevenOfCarina on Aug 25, 2016 12:45:22 GMT
First, I'm not an Alpha tester, just someone who is really hyped about Children of a Dead Earth.
Second, I was thinking of a situation where you are dry on armament, but not on delta v, so you need to pick up every scrap of munitions you can find before that enemy fleet intercepts you, assuming resupply is too long away.
Third, why the heck would you want to leave live nuclear missiles in orbit over heavily populated worlds with extensive orbital infrastructure? It's well and good when you've lost the battle, but there is no reason not to pick them up if you've won.
Fourth, I doubted that that plan would work anyway, so meh.
|
|
|
|
Post by qswitched on Aug 25, 2016 16:02:38 GMT
You can refuel missiles in game if you have the right propellant, though I've personally never had the need to refuel missiles, only drones. For nuclear missiles, their damage is independent of their impact speed, so you generally will launch them at much lower speeds (but not too low).
|
|
aiyel
Junior Member
Posts: 83
|
Post by aiyel on Aug 27, 2016 16:15:05 GMT
So I experimented with solid KKV missiles. I basically just removed the warheads from Sniper missiles and put a 1.5m spacer on the nose.
They have something like 7kps dV, and make a satisfying bang when they hit. I'm considering pairing them with a coilgun launch mechanism if I can ever figure that out.
|
|
|
|
Post by SevenOfCarina on Aug 28, 2016 2:03:20 GMT
Take my upvotes. 👍🏾👏🏾
|
|
aiyel
Junior Member
Posts: 83
|
Post by aiyel on Aug 28, 2016 14:16:22 GMT
They do have flaws, of course, like the entire swarm entering and exiting the same hole. With the usual ship design this means a mobility kill with all follow up salvos going to the same spot. But if you get lucky and hit in the right spot, they're ship killers. And a lot cheaper than my 1.1 GT fleet wreckers, too.
|
|
