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Post by redparadize on Nov 5, 2016 6:07:02 GMT
Yeah, sub-capital drones are REALLY powerful and quite overpowered. I do wonder how did you decrease the weight by that much without compromising anything because a 92% decrease in weight and 88% decrease in price is seriously ridiculous. The playload is not that large or massive, just 20t or so. Larger and heavier the playload is, lower the fractional mass and volume of the crew module is. Say you would have a 1000 tons super-weapon, then the difference would be much lower as the total dead weight would be around 1100t plus armor. But it would still stack up as you add more on the same mothership. BTW, the orginal was the drone, I just added the crew module and fixed fuel and engine. I don't need to go for heavier or more expensive weapons. A single Artemis IV can destroy a fleet of 10 stock ship of your choice. Its carrier, the Gaia III carry 30 for a 25mc total cost. Even against custom made fleet of equal price it still perform quite nicely. But smaller drone are more potent on some aspect...
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Post by someusername6 on Nov 5, 2016 6:41:39 GMT
My intuition is that the improvement depends on the crew / mass ratio. It's fine to have a crew module, if each person aboard is responsible for a way larger fraction of the ship (making it closer to the drone) -- it may become negligible for a sufficiently large ship. Assuming those are at all feasible.
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Post by argonbalt on Nov 5, 2016 7:37:55 GMT
Yeah, sub-capital drones are REALLY powerful and quite overpowered. I do wonder how did you decrease the weight by that much without compromising anything because a 92% decrease in weight and 88% decrease in price is seriously ridiculous. THE AGE OF THE MOBILE ARMOUR IS DAWNING! THE ONE(or non) MAN BATTLESHIP! www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xnyVEZri7s
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 5, 2016 7:44:04 GMT
Yeah, sub-capital drones are REALLY powerful and quite overpowered. I do wonder how did you decrease the weight by that much without compromising anything because a 92% decrease in weight and 88% decrease in price is seriously ridiculous. The playload is not that large or massive, just 20t or so. Larger and heavier the playload is, lower the fractional mass and volume of the crew module is. Say you would have a 1000 tons super-weapon, then the difference would be much lower as the total dead weight would be around 1100t plus armor. But it would still stack up as you add more on the same mothership. BTW, the orginal was the drone, I just added the crew module and fixed fuel and engine. I don't need to go for heavier or more expensive weapons. A single Artemis IV can destroy a fleet of 10 stock ship of your choice. Its carrier, the Gaia III carry 30 for a 25mc total cost. Even against custom made fleet of equal price it still perform quite nicely. But smaller drone are more potent on some aspect... Well that explain a lot. Because I made the drone version from my capital ship instead. I had to compromise armor to make the drone more viable but it still quite weight saving and cost saving.
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Post by redparadize on Nov 5, 2016 9:29:50 GMT
Well that explain a lot. Because I made the drone version from my capital ship instead. I had to compromise armor to make the drone more viable but it still quite weight saving and cost saving. Well, as I said, pure capital ship to drone conversion is probably sub-optimal, I believe the goal should be the bare minimum to guarantee a kill of equivalent or more expensive target. For instance, I have a coilgun so strong that tend to cut ship in half at 250km, it can destroy 10 stock ship in few second, completely overkill and insanely expensive. A single one of these gun cost 10mc, take that gun out of the battle and you won, lose it and you lost. Its too much in the same (undependable) basket. Now you don't need to cut the ship in half, a good blow at any of its core system and if its not disabled, it can't threaten your fleet anymore.
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reviire
New Member
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Posts: 44
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Post by reviire on Nov 5, 2016 9:53:29 GMT
Well that explain a lot. Because I made the drone version from my capital ship instead. I had to compromise armor to make the drone more viable but it still quite weight saving and cost saving. Well, as I said, pure capital ship to drone conversion is probably sub-optimal, I believe the goal should be the bare minimum to guarantee a kill of equivalent or more expensive target. For instance, I have a coilgun so strong that tend to cut ship in half at 250km, it can destroy 10 stock ship in few second, completely overkill and insanely expensive. A single one of these gun cost 10mc, take that gun out of the battle and you won, lose it and you lost. Its too much in the same (undependable) basket. Now you don't need to cut the ship in half, a good blow at any of its core system and if its not disabled, it can't threaten your fleet anymore. That sounds like a bugged coilgun.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 5, 2016 10:16:02 GMT
Coilgun that can fire projectile at speed of dozens of kilometer per second is still possible.
Just that it's now heavy in power AND weight.
Like REALLY heavy.
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Post by magusunion on Nov 5, 2016 16:18:33 GMT
Well piss, redparadize, that looks somewhat similar to my D-35A setup. I guess you're also taking advantage of the limited cross-sectional area of your drones when engaging vessels?
Be interesting to know if you also have refuel-ablilty when it comes to your drones in orbit with an allied ship as well...
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Post by redparadize on Nov 5, 2016 16:20:53 GMT
Coilgun and railgun are ineffective, just too expensive. Bugged or not. I did some test, mainly trying to counter my own strategy and fleet with the opposite approach: Vauban space fortress have super thick armor + superior weapon and defense. For the test, I removed the missile and flare missile because both sides would be equipped with flare missiles, they basically canceling each other. I let the computer handle these while I engaged with 5 Artemis IV drone at 2km/s. I deactivated missile and started shooting with the Artemis guns out of range. Obviously if I would have controlled the Vauban I would have done the same, so I also tested the same thing but just let the Vauban shoot down the Artemis. The question was: Could I kill the Vauban in less time it would take for it to kill my drone. I didn't expect the result to be that much of a landslide. Looks like the Vauban can kill one of the Artemis with 5 sec of fire with its 4 coilgun. The 5 artemis IV can kill the Vauban in about 2 sec of fire. The impressive part is how each other die. The Artemis would bounce some shot than get penetrated in about 2 sec, but since its just a drone it take 3 other sec to deactivate it. The Vauban is manned, but it would not have change anything if it would have been a drone. The combined fire of the 25x50mm guns of the Artemis pack cutted the Vauban in 3 part in just 2 sec. I redid the test with a single Artemis, it took about 10 sec of fire to kill the Vauban. If anyone have a better armor layout for broadside setup, I am willing to try it. But so far, Coilgun are not worth the cost, even when heavily protected, maybe if the ship/drone would change course fast it could dodge Artemis bullet, but then the only thing the Artemis would need to do to offset this problem is engage at higher speed.
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Post by redparadize on Nov 5, 2016 16:25:57 GMT
Well piss, redparadize, that looks somewhat similar to my D-35A setup. I guess you're also taking advantage of the limited cross-sectional area of your drones when engaging vessels? Be interesting to know if you also have refuel-ablilty when it comes to your drones in orbit with an allied ship as well... About refuel, yes, in the 100mc chalange I had drone with refuel ablilty providing a extra 10 Dv to attacker wave. My strategy require Dv superiority to be effective. As for cross-sectional, yes and no, in PvP everyone would shoot out of range. I still show a much smaller area trough.
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Post by concretedonkey on Nov 5, 2016 18:13:54 GMT
Coilgun and railgun are ineffective, just too expensive. Bugged or not. I did some test, mainly trying to counter my own strategy and fleet with the opposite approach: Vauban space fortress have super thick armor + superior weapon and defense. For the test, I removed the missile and flare missile because both sides would be equipped with flare missiles, they basically canceling each other. I let the computer handle these while I engaged with 5 Artemis IV drone at 2km/s. I deactivated missile and started shooting with the Artemis guns out of range. Obviously if I would have controlled the Vauban I would have done the same, so I also tested the same thing but just let the Vauban shoot down the Artemis. The question was: Could I kill the Vauban in less time it would take for it to kill my drone. I didn't expect the result to be that much of a landslide. Looks like the Vauban can kill one of the Artemis with 5 sec of fire with its 4 coilgun. The 5 artemis IV can kill the Vauban in about 2 sec of fire. The impressive part is how each other die. The Artemis would bounce some shot than get penetrated in about 2 sec, but since its just a drone it take 3 other sec to deactivate it. The Vauban is manned, but it would not have change anything if it would have been a drone. The combined fire of the 25x50mm guns of the Artemis pack cutted the Vauban in 3 part in just 2 sec. I redid the test with a single Artemis, it took about 10 sec of fire to kill the Vauban. If anyone have a better armor layout for broadside setup, I am willing to try it. But so far, Coilgun are not worth the cost, even when heavily protected, maybe if the ship/drone would change course fast it could dodge Artemis bullet, but then the only thing the Artemis would need to do to offset this problem is engage at higher speed. You know I'm not a fan of coil guns and railguns , however I'll try to play devil's advocate on this one. They don't necessarily have to be extremely expensive to do their job , and for me they have their niche... I've been experimenting with this one today on my capital drone: As you can see its not expensive for a coil gun , its not large , it requires a lot of power , but if you don't want them bugged there is no way around that... This one , if my calculations are correct is barely not bugged - 37MJ. If you include the the ammunition, price will jump a lot however... haven't found a way round it, the magnetic metal glass is just too effective. However with this low fire rate this gun is not supposed to spit tens of thousands of slugs so this is less of a problem compared to the bugged coilguns. It just has a different niche , its supposed to shift forward the effective range of a gun engagement , a lot further out then with normal guns. With this one I'm getting occasional hits at 200 km and at 100 its hitting reliably. Its never going to compare to my knife figthing conventional guns , its just too slow, for the time this one shoots a hundred rounds , they have already cut the enemy in two. But they can be a good addition for a large drone or a capital ship that can provide enough power. Never going to be my primary ship killer though. Missiles FTW.
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Post by redparadize on Nov 5, 2016 18:39:45 GMT
Devils advocate is the way to go! That a nice gun, quite cheap and light. But As I see there is two flaw with it: As you said, the biggest cost for coil gun is its ammo, Magnetic Metal glass is prohibitive. Secondly, 40MW imply up-scaling my flare missile by a long shot. Currently, my biggest flare missile cover for 36MW and they weight/cost 86kg/1kc. Thats a limiting factor for me as I want these as small as possible. Maybe you could put that gun on something and see how it would fit in a big strategy? I would be curious! Edit: Oh, here is my low power Coil gun:
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Post by concretedonkey on Nov 5, 2016 18:54:30 GMT
Devils advocate is the way to go! That a nice gun, quite cheap and light. But As I see there is two flaw with it: As you said, the biggest cost for coil gun is its ammo, Magnetic Metal glass is prohibitive. Secondly, 40MW imply up-scaling my flare missile by a long shot. Currently, my biggest flare missile cover for 36MW and they weight/cost 86kg/1kc. Thats a limiting factor for me as I want these as small as possible. Maybe you could put that gun on something and see how it would fit in a big strategy? I would be curious! The capital drone in question: Its not finished. I would very much like to increase the power of those lasers around the coil gun, but at the same time I prefer to keep the radiators from spreading out so I'm struggling with it at the moment. Initially the high power requirements came from the idea of using additional MPDs to extend the range of the drones. However this is somehow not working for the moment. Coilgun was just to utilize this power during combat. And after that , why not place lasers on top of it ? Main weapos are the NEFPs and the LRDM-s - stands for long range defense missile. The tests against my current stable of drones are inconclusive. It wins against the attack drones if it menages to kill them far out. If they come close however the 36mm conventional guns that I have on them kill the capital drones very fast. The 20MW Valkyries that are my top dog against drones at the moment win against those without any problem. The Shieldmaidens , even in large numbers loose - distracted by missiles , even the underpowered lasers kill them eventually. Capital ships usually loose against them. The LRDMs distract the lasers, occaisonal wave of NEFPs breaks through. Coilgun is slowly but reliably pounding from distance. Edit: Btw your gun is broken.
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Post by redparadize on Nov 7, 2016 0:43:53 GMT
Yeah my gun is broken. My point being that even if it is, I still prefer standard cannon and mainly for cost effectiveness.
That's a nice Drone you have there. I assume its a dual engine right? I mean, your MPD can't have 1.9g of trust! I trough about his for my mothership and drones that were not expected to combat. It would have fitted well in the 100mc challenge I made. Its the only ship I have seen so far that could catch my mothership. If its a dual engine it could take a while before you catch it.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 7, 2016 0:56:05 GMT
Erm
For those of you saying your coilgun is 'cheap'.
You completely forgot about that the coilgun ROUND is stupid expensive.
Magnetic Metal Glass is absolutely, horrendously expensive.
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