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Post by neversteam on Dec 29, 2017 1:59:12 GMT
Just found this game - looks amazing. Kind of scratches the 'The Expanse' itch from the Corey/Abraham/Franck novels. Anyway, I'm adamant about not installing the abomination that is the steam client on my machine, but I'd love to play (and pay for!) this game. Please let me know if you've got any pending plans to distribute it apart from steam. In the meantime I'll have to content myself with watching gameplay videos... Thanks!
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Post by Hicks on Jan 3, 2018 20:47:13 GMT
Just found this game - looks amazing. Kind of scratches the 'The Expanse' itch from the Corey/Abraham/Franck novels. Anyway, I'm adamant about not installing the abomination that is the steam client on my machine, but I'd love to play (and pay for!) this game. Please let me know if you've got any pending plans to distribute it apart from steam. In the meantime I'll have to content myself with watching gameplay videos... Thanks! 2 things: Firstly, welcome to the forum. Secondly, why? As far as I can tell, Steam is a great service that easily allows me to access my library of games on any machine connected to the internet. Which is great for when I traveled and couldn't bring my desktop, or when I upgrade and have to migrate everything. It is easy to keep my games patched with steam, a one stop place to keep my games' version current so I can link up through multiplayer more easily, or get swift access to patches for bug fixes and added content. Steam workshop support is an extreamly easy way to share vessels I created in space engineers, from the depths, Airships: Conquer the Skies, and even custom models or whole ship in Children of a Dead Earth. And the Steam workshop makes getting mods for a game i own easy and searchable, with a clear display and description and discussion back to back with other mods, and ive never ever heard of anyone getting anything malacious through the workshop, unlike downloading a random execuatible file from some corner if thw interbet you'be never been before that claims it's just a game mod and not a bunch of bundled malware. Steam multiplayer easily allows me to connect for free with friends and play pretry far into Terrarria, carried by their later game gear. And you don't always have to be online to play your games, unless they have some draconian DRM; but that is a problem with the game, not with Steam. I've opened Steam on a friend's computer, then set it to offline mode so they don't authenticate but can play my game I really want to show them, them fired up my computer and played what ever I wanted too. I kno I'm gushing over Steam, but it is kinda like smartphone levels of good for improving my quality of life getting access and playing games, i.e. I can mark my life as before I got a smartphone where I had to sit down at a terminal I had to get access to the near sum total of current human knowledge that is the internet and now where now I have a star trek device in my hand that connects me to the world as long as I'm within 5 miles of a cellphone tower, and Steam just beats the absolute pants off of going to Wal-Mart to buy a game or some specific website for each game, oops needs a patch, log into a unique website and make an account, download and install the patch, and remember every website and every account and every password for every single game I own and keep on top of patching everything. So care to share why you are adamant about rejecting the 3ed best free service on the internet? (Google, Wikipedia, then Steam)
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Post by newageofpower on Jan 4, 2018 1:25:55 GMT
Some people are ideologically opposed to entities like Google, Valve, etc. I think they are misguided or plain wrong, but if Q-Sempai doesn't cater to them he won't get much of their money.
A simple cost-benefit analysis indicates its extremely unlikely the manhours put into catering to them will be beneficial, imho.
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Post by David367th on Jan 4, 2018 4:51:19 GMT
To be honest, if I was deathly afraid of Steam coming to my house and straggling me, I would still download it to play CDE.
And to be honest I don't see why someone would be against steam anyway. You're only losing out. If it's the marketplace you don't have to participate in that sort of thing.
But of course, a standalone version of CDE would be nice, if Valve allows it.
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Post by Hicks on Jan 4, 2018 5:00:23 GMT
And there's the rub, innit? There might be some exclusivity clause with Steam.
But srsly, download the client. There isn't some weird ad bombardment like windows 10 where it has advertisements on my freaking start menu, and it won't add a useless toolbar or fill your hard drive with malware. It isn't going to redirect your homepage to Bing or some other service you don't care about, it won't activate your laptop's camera and gaze longingly into your eyes deep into the night. It just sells games and makes gaming better.
Edit: OH YEAH, and Steam is the only retailer on the planet that will give you a full refund for your game as long as you've played less than a few hours of it and only had it a few days. I have never, ever heard if anybody else giving a full refund for software. I bought Space Engineers for my gal-pal and she freaking hated it, so I got a refund and we went out to eat instead.
So why exactly do you dislike Steam neversteam?
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Post by AdmiralObvious on Jan 4, 2018 6:59:56 GMT
From what I understand, once you add Workshop support to the game, it's kind of hard to "unworkshop" it.
If there were to be a standalone version, that would require another server of some description, and the clients would have to be patched seperately, if they are patched at all in the future.
Steam generally makes it easier on the developer to upload new versions and having them go out universally, as well as stopping "legacy client" bug reports.
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Post by Rocket Witch on Jan 4, 2018 20:11:19 GMT
I would buy CDE again if it were made available on GOG. So care to share why you are adamant about rejecting the 3ed best free service on the internet? (Google, Wikipedia, then Steam) The one thing I've always absolutely loathed about Steam is the fact updates are required to play games. Expected in multiplayer cases, but most of mine are singleplayer sims running a lot of mods which Steam can mess up, either through validating game directories, or updates which break mods when I'd rather play with the mods than the update content. I'm not opposed to Steam's existence, but it doesn't offer what I want in a gaming service while at the same time being so dominant I need it to get certain games.
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Post by thorneel on Jan 4, 2018 20:35:03 GMT
From what I understand, once you add Workshop support to the game, it's kind of hard to "unworkshop" it. If there were to be a standalone version, that would require another server of some description, and the clients would have to be patched seperately, if they are patched at all in the future. Steam generally makes it easier on the developer to upload new versions and having them go out universally, as well as stopping "legacy client" bug reports. Gog is working on a heavy client, which should have similar features to Steam. I hope they also add a workshop equivalent at some point. Having a DRM-less Steam-like (where we buy a game instead of the right to play it until they decide to kill it) would be nice as well.
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Post by AdmiralObvious on Jan 4, 2018 21:11:39 GMT
From what I understand, once you add Workshop support to the game, it's kind of hard to "unworkshop" it. If there were to be a standalone version, that would require another server of some description, and the clients would have to be patched seperately, if they are patched at all in the future. Steam generally makes it easier on the developer to upload new versions and having them go out universally, as well as stopping "legacy client" bug reports. Gog is working on a heavy client, which should have similar features to Steam. I hope they also add a workshop equivalent at some point. Having a DRM-less Steam-like (where we buy a game instead of the right to play it until they decide to kill it) would be nice as well. I do love GOG and what they're trying to do, but wouldn't the GOG client itself eventually do the same thing Steam has already done? Also, I'm personally slightly in favor of DRM, mostly because otherwise games would still be shareware. As long as the DRM is reasonable (eg, not always online, or having a background program nuking the CPU) it's fine.
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Post by apophys on Jan 4, 2018 21:26:54 GMT
Gog is working on a heavy client, which should have similar features to Steam. I hope they also add a workshop equivalent at some point. Having a DRM-less Steam-like (where we buy a game instead of the right to play it until they decide to kill it) would be nice as well. Smart Steam Emu exists. It bypasses Steam DRM by replacing the Steam launcher, and it never contacts Steam servers. This means no updates and no Workshop access when you use it, but also means the game can't be killed. Rocket Witch , you might be interested in that.
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Post by beatle on Jan 6, 2018 1:30:25 GMT
I do love GOG and what they're trying to do, but wouldn't the GOG client itself eventually do the same thing Steam has already done? Also, I'm personally slightly in favor of DRM, mostly because otherwise games would still be shareware. As long as the DRM is reasonable (eg, not always online, or having a background program nuking the CPU) it's fine. Don't get e wrong, Steam is definitely a lesser evil in current game industry and I own a couple hundred games on my steam account. But there is no such thing as non evil DRM. Like your two example points for 'reasonable DRM': - Steam IS basically always online DRM. I can't play or install the hundreds of games I bought without internet access and kind permission from steam servers. - Although Steam is nowhere near performance degrading as some DRMs it does use some CPU and RAM and significantly slows down game startup time from cold boot. It might not be much, but, for example, on my previous old laptop, the requirement to run steam in background was the last straw that made the difference if I could run some games or not. And all that is minor point compared to the inevitable loss of games because of DRM. There are already some abandoned games that no one (including people who have bought them) can play any more, because of DRM.
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Post by AdmiralObvious on Jan 6, 2018 6:53:43 GMT
I do love GOG and what they're trying to do, but wouldn't the GOG client itself eventually do the same thing Steam has already done? Also, I'm personally slightly in favor of DRM, mostly because otherwise games would still be shareware. As long as the DRM is reasonable (eg, not always online, or having a background program nuking the CPU) it's fine. Don't get e wrong, Steam is definitely a lesser evil in current game industry and I own a couple hundred games on my steam account. But there is no such thing as non evil DRM. Like your two example points for 'reasonable DRM': - Steam IS basically always online DRM. I can't play or install the hundreds of games I bought without internet access and kind permission from steam servers. - Although Steam is nowhere near performance degrading as some DRMs it does use some CPU and RAM and significantly slows down game startup time from cold boot. It might not be much, but, for example, on my previous old laptop, the requirement to run steam in background was the last straw that made the difference if I could run some games or not. And all that is minor point compared to the inevitable loss of games because of DRM. There are already some abandoned games that no one (including people who have bought them) can play any more, because of DRM. What I mean by steam not being an "always online" service is that, in my experience, the internet in my area went down for a period of 7 months straight, as a result of unusually high tourist traffic at the time which clogged up the cell networks, back when my only internet option was a 3G Hotspot. I was still able to play literally all of my games just fine in offline mode. As for sites which have DRM services which have more or less died, I do agree with what you have to say on that. Granted I'm pretty sure people have found ways to crack their way past most of them at this point.
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Post by AtomHeartDragon on Feb 16, 2018 11:36:02 GMT
I do love GOG and what they're trying to do, but wouldn't the GOG client itself eventually do the same thing Steam has already done? Given that their main selling point is letting you "own" your games - so no DRM, client stays strictly optional, you can revert to any prior version if you want, etc. - unlikely. Then why do games still sell when cracked or sold without DRM to begin with? If compensating creators for their good work doesn't appeal to you, then the best reason to buy games is ensuring more such games will be made in the future (either by the same people, copycats wanting to replicate the success, or new devs inspired by the original). All DRM accomplishes is treating paying customers as thieves by default, creating countless technical and security issues, and helping really good games get lost in time. Conversely lack of DRM avoids screwing anyone over, helps keep programming simple, solid and less likely to break stuff or get broken and helps ensure game's longevity. Let's just say that if CoADE was on GOG I would have gotten it about a year earlier, as I never personally buy stuff through Steam and only occasionally buy games on Steam if they are available in boxed version.
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Post by AdmiralObvious on Feb 18, 2018 20:18:38 GMT
I do love GOG and what they're trying to do, but wouldn't the GOG client itself eventually do the same thing Steam has already done? Given that their main selling point is letting you "own" your games - so no DRM, client stays strictly optional, you can revert to any prior version if you want, etc. - unlikely. Then why do games still sell when cracked or sold without DRM to begin with? If compensating creators for their good work doesn't appeal to you, then the best reason to buy games is ensuring more such games will be made in the future (either by the same people, copycats wanting to replicate the success, or new devs inspired by the original). All DRM accomplishes is treating paying customers as thieves by default, creating countless technical and security issues, and helping really good games get lost in time. Conversely lack of DRM avoids screwing anyone over, helps keep programming simple, solid and less likely to break stuff or get broken and helps ensure game's longevity. Let's just say that if CoADE was on GOG I would have gotten it about a year earlier, as I never personally buy stuff through Steam and only occasionally buy games on Steam if they are available in boxed version. Here's the thing. Most games sold without ANY form of DRM, tend to lose out on about 30 to 70 percent of projected sales due to people copying the game, or reselling it (these statistics are from the 90's). Granted that would make the game more visible, and possibly induce more sales as a result. DRM if done right, can be largely non intrusive. DRM done wrong (examples being requiring a pingback from a server every 100ms) does tend to ruin games.
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Post by thorneel on Feb 18, 2018 21:09:14 GMT
Here's the thing. Most games sold without ANY form of DRM, tend to lose out on about 30 to 70 percent of projected sales due to people copying the game, or reselling it (these statistics are from the 90's). Granted that would make the game more visible, and possibly induce more sales as a result. Could you give the source? I've rarely heard specific numbers as those given, so I'd be curious to see studies on it.
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