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Post by thorneel on Oct 22, 2017 21:58:07 GMT
http://www. projectrho. com/public_html/rocket/spacegunconvent.php#chemthermonuke
http://www. projectrho. com/public_html/rocket/supplement/Impact%20Fusion%20Write-Up.pdf
"It might be barely possible to ignite a small fusion reaction using chemical explosives. Maybe. Not out of the question. Possibly. Not impossible. Sort of."
We are probably already on all nuclear proliferation watchlists anyway.
And frankly, what is a little nuclear proliferation in regard to a possibility of an Nuclear Pulse Propulsion drive without fissile - that is, without most of its chemical, radiological and political fallout?
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Post by Kerr on Oct 22, 2017 22:32:06 GMT
http://www. projectrho. com/public_html/rocket/spacegunconvent.php#chemthermonuke http://www. projectrho. com/public_html/rocket/supplement/Impact%20Fusion%20Write-Up.pdf "It might be barely possible to ignite a small fusion reaction using chemical explosives. Maybe. Not out of the question. Possibly. Not impossible. Sort of." We are probably already on all nuclear proliferation watchlists anyway. And frankly, what is a little nuclear proliferation in regard to a possibility of an Nuclear Pulse Propulsion drive without fissile - that is, without most of its chemical, radiological and political fallout? The links don't seem to work, achieving fusion with chemical fuel sounds nearly impossible and extremely impractical. The temperatures required would exceed anything achievable with chem fuel by several magnitudes. Me or someone like matterbeam not being on a nuclear proliferation watchlist is about as likely as being killed by neutrinos |
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Post by Enderminion on Oct 23, 2017 2:45:21 GMT
I got the link to work, pure fusion nuclear explosives used in mining, military, space propulsions, demoliton, terrorism, etc, etc.
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Post by thorneel on Oct 23, 2017 14:53:40 GMT
http://www. projectrho. com/public_html/rocket/spacegunconvent.php#chemthermonuke http://www. projectrho. com/public_html/rocket/supplement/Impact%20Fusion%20Write-Up.pdf "It might be barely possible to ignite a small fusion reaction using chemical explosives. Maybe. Not out of the question. Possibly. Not impossible. Sort of." We are probably already on all nuclear proliferation watchlists anyway. And frankly, what is a little nuclear proliferation in regard to a possibility of an Nuclear Pulse Propulsion drive without fissile - that is, without most of its chemical, radiological and political fallout? The links don't seem to work, achieving fusion with chemical fuel sounds nearly impossible and extremely impractical. The temperatures required would exceed anything achievable with chem fuel by several magnitudes. Me or someone like matterbeam not being on a nuclear proliferation watchlist is about as likely as being killed by neutrinos Sorry, I got the habit to add a few spaces to links on this forum, so viglink don't add its spylink on top on it. The basic principle is to use successive stages of high explosives to accelerate plate impactors. A plate impactor hitting the next high explosive causes the explosion wave to be much faster for a short distance, which in turn will accelerate the next plate further - plate speed is limited by how fast the wave propagates. After enough stages, the final impactor has a speed of about 12 km/s. The last impactor is cup-shaped. In front of it, there is a Deuterium-Tritium gas, and beyond that another cup-shaped plate (the "bowl"). The gas is compressed by the 12 km/s cup, which then impacts the other cup. As they smash into each-other, the cas chamber keeps getting smaller until it is only a tiny bubble in the middle of the plates (as with those shapes, the borders smash into each-other before the centre). This is supposed to be enough to cause fusion, and act as the primary. Radiation and particles from the primary then ignite the Li6-D secondary.  |
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Post by n2maniac on Oct 24, 2017 4:38:32 GMT
The links don't seem to work, achieving fusion with chemical fuel sounds nearly impossible and extremely impractical. The temperatures required would exceed anything achievable with chem fuel by several magnitudes. Me or someone like matterbeam not being on a nuclear proliferation watchlist is about as likely as being killed by neutrinos Sorry, I got the habit to add a few spaces to links on this forum, so viglink don't add its spylink on top on it. The basic principle is to use successive stages of high explosives to accelerate plate impactors. A plate impactor hitting the next high explosive causes the explosion wave to be much faster for a short distance, which in turn will accelerate the next plate further - plate speed is limited by how fast the wave propagates. After enough stages, the final impactor has a speed of about 12 km/s. The last impactor is cup-shaped. In front of it, there is a Deuterium-Tritium gas, and beyond that another cup-shaped plate (the "bowl"). The gas is compressed by the 12 km/s cup, which then impacts the other cup. As they smash into each-other, the cas chamber keeps getting smaller until it is only a tiny bubble in the middle of the plates (as with those shapes, the borders smash into each-other before the centre). This is supposed to be enough to cause fusion, and act as the primary. Radiation and particles from the primary then ignite the Li6-D secondary. 12km/s? That is in the territory where two light gas guns aiming at each other might work, and where CDE railguns would work. |
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Post by bigbombr on Oct 24, 2017 6:09:04 GMT
Sorry, I got the habit to add a few spaces to links on this forum, so viglink don't add its spylink on top on it. The basic principle is to use successive stages of high explosives to accelerate plate impactors. A plate impactor hitting the next high explosive causes the explosion wave to be much faster for a short distance, which in turn will accelerate the next plate further - plate speed is limited by how fast the wave propagates. After enough stages, the final impactor has a speed of about 12 km/s. The last impactor is cup-shaped. In front of it, there is a Deuterium-Tritium gas, and beyond that another cup-shaped plate (the "bowl"). The gas is compressed by the 12 km/s cup, which then impacts the other cup. As they smash into each-other, the cas chamber keeps getting smaller until it is only a tiny bubble in the middle of the plates (as with those shapes, the borders smash into each-other before the centre). This is supposed to be enough to cause fusion, and act as the primary. Radiation and particles from the primary then ignite the Li6-D secondary. 12km/s? That is in the territory where two light gas guns aiming at each other might work, and where CDE railguns would work. RAM-accelerators could theoretically reach 10 km/s. What's the limit of electrothermally augmented conventional guns? Or could you do something like electrothermally augmented shaped charges? Light gas guns are a little bulky AFAIK. |
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Post by Kerr on Oct 24, 2017 16:20:41 GMT
The links don't seem to work, achieving fusion with chemical fuel sounds nearly impossible and extremely impractical. The temperatures required would exceed anything achievable with chem fuel by several magnitudes. Me or someone like matterbeam not being on a nuclear proliferation watchlist is about as likely as being killed by neutrinos Sorry, I got the habit to add a few spaces to links on this forum, so viglink don't add its spylink on top on it. The basic principle is to use successive stages of high explosives to accelerate plate impactors. A plate impactor hitting the next high explosive causes the explosion wave to be much faster for a short distance, which in turn will accelerate the next plate further - plate speed is limited by how fast the wave propagates. After enough stages, the final impactor has a speed of about 12 km/s. The last impactor is cup-shaped. In front of it, there is a Deuterium-Tritium gas, and beyond that another cup-shaped plate (the "bowl"). The gas is compressed by the 12 km/s cup, which then impacts the other cup. As they smash into each-other, the cas chamber keeps getting smaller until it is only a tiny bubble in the middle of the plates (as with those shapes, the borders smash into each-other before the centre). This is supposed to be enough to cause fusion, and act as the primary. Radiation and particles from the primary then ignite the Li6-D secondary. This method.. it is elegant, marvelous and doesn't work. The momentum that has to be imparted is dozens to hundred of kilonewton per gram. And even if the pressure was sufficient, the fuel simply lacks the hundred thousands of kelvin needed. |
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Post by thorneel on Oct 24, 2017 20:49:13 GMT
Sorry, I got the habit to add a few spaces to links on this forum, so viglink don't add its spylink on top on it. The basic principle is to use successive stages of high explosives to accelerate plate impactors. A plate impactor hitting the next high explosive causes the explosion wave to be much faster for a short distance, which in turn will accelerate the next plate further - plate speed is limited by how fast the wave propagates. After enough stages, the final impactor has a speed of about 12 km/s. The last impactor is cup-shaped. In front of it, there is a Deuterium-Tritium gas, and beyond that another cup-shaped plate (the "bowl"). The gas is compressed by the 12 km/s cup, which then impacts the other cup. As they smash into each-other, the cas chamber keeps getting smaller until it is only a tiny bubble in the middle of the plates (as with those shapes, the borders smash into each-other before the centre). This is supposed to be enough to cause fusion, and act as the primary. Radiation and particles from the primary then ignite the Li6-D secondary. This method.. it is elegant, marvelous and doesn't work. The momentum that has to be imparted is dozens to hundred of kilonewton per gram. And even if the pressure was sufficient, the fuel simply lacks the hundred thousands of kelvin needed. It seems that some young German physicist suggested something like that in '43, but Heisenberg seems to have said something like that. But (fortunately) tritium was barely identified (if even that) at this point so the design couldn't have been based on deuterium-tritium gas. And it may not even have had a secondary, though I haven't searched for more details. Still, if you want an alternate history where the Nazis had the Bomb, this is one not-too-ridiculously-far-fetched possibility. Now for this one, what exactly doesn't work? For the momentum, a massive amount of explosives is used to accelerate a tiny cup. About a few mm to a few cm in the design sizes evoked in the paper, I believe. Energy-wise, there should be enough - the trick with several stages is to reach a greater final velocity. As the device is destroyed anyway, this seems a simpler method than using a complex mechanism like a a railgun or a ram accelerator. As for temperature, the gas is compressed at a ridiculously degree (pun not intended), ad as such it heats up. I trust the author to have gotten the calculations right about how fast the cup has to go to achieve the desired result. |
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Post by n2maniac on Oct 25, 2017 4:35:28 GMT
Sorry, I got the habit to add a few spaces to links on this forum, so viglink don't add its spylink on top on it. The basic principle is to use successive stages of high explosives to accelerate plate impactors. A plate impactor hitting the next high explosive causes the explosion wave to be much faster for a short distance, which in turn will accelerate the next plate further - plate speed is limited by how fast the wave propagates. After enough stages, the final impactor has a speed of about 12 km/s. The last impactor is cup-shaped. In front of it, there is a Deuterium-Tritium gas, and beyond that another cup-shaped plate (the "bowl"). The gas is compressed by the 12 km/s cup, which then impacts the other cup. As they smash into each-other, the cas chamber keeps getting smaller until it is only a tiny bubble in the middle of the plates (as with those shapes, the borders smash into each-other before the centre). This is supposed to be enough to cause fusion, and act as the primary. Radiation and particles from the primary then ignite the Li6-D secondary. This method.. it is elegant, marvelous and doesn't work. The momentum that has to be imparted is dozens to hundred of kilonewton per gram. And even if the pressure was sufficient, the fuel simply lacks the hundred thousands of kelvin needed. Did you mean energy on the order of 10^5 kJ/g? Are you implying adiabatic compression between plates is insufficient to generate the heat? |
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Post by Kerr on Oct 25, 2017 5:49:06 GMT
This method.. it is elegant, marvelous and doesn't work. The momentum that has to be imparted is dozens to hundred of kilonewton per gram. And even if the pressure was sufficient, the fuel simply lacks the hundred thousands of kelvin needed. It seems that some young German physicist suggested something like that in '43, but Heisenberg seems to have said something like that. But (fortunately) tritium was barely identified (if even that) at this point so the design couldn't have been based on deuterium-tritium gas. And it may not even have had a secondary, though I haven't searched for more details. Still, if you want an alternate history where the Nazis had the Bomb, this is one not-too-ridiculously-far-fetched possibility. Now for this one, what exactly doesn't work? For the momentum, a massive amount of explosives is used to accelerate a tiny cup. About a few mm to a few cm in the design sizes evoked in the paper, I believe. Energy-wise, there should be enough - the trick with several stages is to reach a greater final velocity. As the device is destroyed anyway, this seems a simpler method than using a complex mechanism like a a railgun or a ram accelerator. As for temperature, the gas is compressed at a ridiculously degree (pun not intended), ad as such it heats up. I trust the author to have gotten the calculations right about how fast the cup has to go to achieve the desired result. Then what is the pressure and temperature achieved in this design? "ridiculously degree" not much to work with. |
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Post by Kerr on Oct 25, 2017 5:53:16 GMT
This method.. it is elegant, marvelous and doesn't work. The momentum that has to be imparted is dozens to hundred of kilonewton per gram. And even if the pressure was sufficient, the fuel simply lacks the hundred thousands of kelvin needed. Did you mean energy on the order of 10^5 kJ/g? Are you implying adiabatic compression between plates is insufficient to generate the heat? Are you implying that the adiabtic compression between the plates is sufficient to produce a plasma fireball capable of igniting anything within dozens of meters? |
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Post by n2maniac on Oct 26, 2017 3:46:45 GMT
Did you mean energy on the order of 10^5 kJ/g? Are you implying adiabatic compression between plates is insufficient to generate the heat? Are you implying that the adiabtic compression between the plates is sufficient to produce a plasma fireball capable of igniting anything within dozens of meters? I remember doing some back of the envelope calcs at some point (this was years ago) and convincing myself that the region of 40km/s for two impactors would be in the right region, but it wouldn't surprise me that someone with more expertise came up with a number a bit lower. |
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Post by thorneel on Oct 26, 2017 22:00:06 GMT
It seems that some young German physicist suggested something like that in '43, but Heisenberg seems to have said something like that. But (fortunately) tritium was barely identified (if even that) at this point so the design couldn't have been based on deuterium-tritium gas. And it may not even have had a secondary, though I haven't searched for more details. Still, if you want an alternate history where the Nazis had the Bomb, this is one not-too-ridiculously-far-fetched possibility. Now for this one, what exactly doesn't work? For the momentum, a massive amount of explosives is used to accelerate a tiny cup. About a few mm to a few cm in the design sizes evoked in the paper, I believe. Energy-wise, there should be enough - the trick with several stages is to reach a greater final velocity. As the device is destroyed anyway, this seems a simpler method than using a complex mechanism like a a railgun or a ram accelerator. As for temperature, the gas is compressed at a ridiculously degree (pun not intended), ad as such it heats up. I trust the author to have gotten the calculations right about how fast the cup has to go to achieve the desired result. Then what is the pressure and temperature achieved in this design? "ridiculously degree" not much to work with. If I understand correctly, there are helical conductors around the primary cylinder containing the DT gas. The cup is made from a conductive material, and electricity is generated in the conductors by its movement, which generates a strong magnetic field which, coupled with the compression, causes fusion. This paper is cited for that part of the design: D. Barnes, "Mechanical Injection of Magnetic Helicity," The Physics of Fluids, vol. 31, no. 8, pp. 2214-2220, 1988 but I couldn't find a free version on-line, so I'll trust that "it should work". I won't pretend understanding all those equations anyway... When the cup hits the gas, it causes a shock, which is reflected many times, which apparently helps heating and compressing the gas as well. The paper is talking about a 1000-fold compression, and final temperature given is ~9500 K. Though earlier another temperature of 10 keV is given, which corresponds to 116 million K. I guess that's after the 200 T magnetic field did its job. Also note that this is not to create the massive fireball, but produce enough particles to ignite the Li6-D secondary, which is what causes the main fireball. If it is a problem to have to edit the links by hand to remove the spaces, here are there again (be careful with the spylink, tho) www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacegunconvent.php#chemthermonukewww.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/supplement/Impact%20Fusion%20Write-Up.pdf |
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Post by treptoplax on Oct 29, 2017 14:38:34 GMT
Fusion initiated by conventional forces isn't implausible at all - a talented and reckless electrical engineer can build a Farnsworth fusor in a garage. Energy-positive systems seem almost perversely difficult to achieve, though.
Personally my favorite is General Fusion, a startup with a pleasingly steampunk plan of bubbling tritium gas through a tank of molten lead which you then whack on all sides with giant pistons to produce converging pressure waves. Apparently the math works, although there is serious doubt about the engineering feasibility...
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Post by n2maniac on Oct 29, 2017 19:25:19 GMT
Fusion initiated by conventional forces isn't implausible at all - a talented and reckless electrical engineer can build a Farnsworth fusor in a garage. Energy-positive systems seem almost perversely difficult to achieve, though. Personally my favorite is General Fusion, a startup with a pleasingly steampunk plan of bubbling tritium gas through a tank of molten lead which you then whack on all sides with giant pistons to produce converging pressure waves. Apparently the math works, although there is serious doubt about the engineering feasibility... Do note: General fusion is also turning the gas into a plasma before the compression. |
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