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Post by ironclad6 on Aug 27, 2017 2:20:44 GMT
the moment you light up with active sensors you can expect the enemy to hit you with all of their weapons By the time you need to acquire a Target lock the enemy is already hitting you with all their weapons. Your habitat module is ~290ish degrees K above background. There is no horizon. Your reactor cannot be conveniently shut down (Technically it can be, but it cannot thereafter be restarted without a massive offboard power supply) so you're radiating at ~2000K above background. You can't hide. You can't even be basically lo-pro. On that basis, if you're not radiating with every active sensor you have you're just a goddamned moron.
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Post by ironclad6 on Aug 27, 2017 2:25:46 GMT
By the time you need to acquire a Target lock the enemy is already hitting you with all their weapons. radar homers can be on very small units, like missiles, you don't need a lock the missiles will home in and use bomb pumped lasers to skewer your radar unit Man, bomb pumped lasers and NEFP are your go to for everything. The funny thing is that you don't seem to be able to distinguish between the two concepts and you flit back and forth to which ever one you want as it suits you. The problem you have is that creating a coherent laser beam that will out-range a dedicated laser platform means that you have to effectively re-create that precision engineered piece of equipment and then annihilate it with a nuclear bomb. If you want to attack me that way, for for it. I'll sit back here under my atmosphere, laughing my arse off while you bankrupt yourself.
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Post by Enderminion on Aug 27, 2017 2:38:07 GMT
radar homers can be on very small units, like missiles, you don't need a lock the missiles will home in and use bomb pumped lasers to skewer your radar unit Man, bomb pumped lasers and NEFP are your go to for everything. The funny thing is that you don't seem to be able to distinguish between the two concepts and you flit back and forth to which ever one you want as it suits you. The problem you have is that creating a coherent laser beam that will out-range a dedicated laser platform means that you have to effectively re-create that precision engineered piece of equipment and then annihilate it with a nuclear bomb. If you want to attack me that way, for for it. I'll sit back here under my atmosphere, laughing my arse off while you bankrupt yourself. X-Ray lasers and Howitzers are nulified by atmo yes, NEMP is not, and atmo means winds means salted weapons. as I understand it a bomb-pumped laser is a lasing rod in front of a nuke which produces a brief, barly focused X-Ray or similer wavelength beam, Howitzers are nukes in a berylium oxide channel with a DU case around it, and a Tungsten or similer cap on one end that gets exploded into your ship. Atmo has it's own problems like not being able to use UV lasers and being more difficult to launch missiles
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Post by ironclad6 on Aug 27, 2017 2:49:21 GMT
So you've hit the nail on the head there but you've completely failed to notice. The essential failure for a bomb pumped nukes is that it's beam quality factor is miserable which means it's efficacy drops off desperately with range. For any given level of technology a precision maintained, dedicated laser always out-ranges a technologically equivalent bomb pumped laser. The same basic problem applies to NEFP, that is to say that it's always outperformed by a technologically equivalent laser. If I'm in orbit I'm going to see you boost your NEFP/Bomb pumped laser from much much further away than you can effectively hit me with either weapon and I'm going to slag you. If on the other hand you conceal your heavy hitter amongst a couple of thousand decoys, now I have a problem. The problem you now have is that, having overwhelmed my supply of fire control channels, you have no further need to hit me with an expensive and complex weapon like an NEFP or bomb pumped laser.
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Post by Enderminion on Aug 27, 2017 3:14:30 GMT
So you've hit the nail on the head there but you've completely failed to notice. The essential failure for a bomb pumped nukes is that it's beam quality factor is miserable which means it's efficacy drops off desperately with range. For any given level of technology a precision maintained, dedicated laser always out-ranges a technologically equivalent bomb pumped laser. The same basic problem applies to NEFP, that is to say that it's always outperformed by a technologically equivalent laser. If I'm in orbit I'm going to see you boost your NEFP/Bomb pumped laser Nitpicking here but you got on me for lumping Howitzers and Bomb-pumped lasers in the same boat from much much further away than you can effectively hit me with either weapon and I'm going to slag you. If on the other hand you conceal your heavy hitter amongst a couple of thousand decoys, now I have a problem. The problem you now have is that, having overwhelmed my supply of fire control channels, you have no further need to hit me with an expensive and complex weapon like an NEFP or bomb pumped laser. Bomb pumped lasers have much more power behind them, Howitzers don't get much bigger beyond a few kilotons without the unit becoming much bigger (or that much more damaging), a bomb-pumped laser can have three-stage thermonuclear warheads behind them and have multipule beams per a bomb
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Post by ironclad6 on Aug 27, 2017 3:29:48 GMT
You're a bit special aren't you.
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Post by Enderminion on Aug 27, 2017 3:44:33 GMT
You're a bit special aren't you. that's... a bit of an insult, why don't you point out where I'm wrong then?
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Post by ironclad6 on Aug 27, 2017 5:38:28 GMT
I have, as have many other people on this thread but you keep going on playing the same two notes over and over again as if no one else is talking. The thing is mate, you don't need anyone else to be present for this conversation.
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Post by bigbombr on Aug 27, 2017 6:32:15 GMT
You're a bit special aren't you. Name-calling is unnecessary and diminishes the credibility of any argument you're trying to make. Personally, I somewhat doubt cassaba howitzers would be able to compete with cutting-edge lasers. I'm personally very skeptical of bomb-pumped lasers. But I admit I might be a little over-enthusiastic about passive IR detection (and identification, and tracking) and lasers. The truth is, since the game lacks searching, tracking and identification, lacks barrel fins, oversimplifies radiators, doesn't have free-electron lasers, doesn't have mirror drones, doesn't have Teller-Ulam devices, doesn't have cassaba howitzers, doesn't have bomb-pumped lasers, doesn't factor in barrel erosion over consecutive shots, and doesn't allow us to 'bombard' one orbit from a different one with long range kinetic fire (and doesn't integrate tactical and orbital view more), any talk about the ultimate warship, the ultimate weapon or the ultimate tactic/strategy is complete speculation. CoaDE is a one of a kind game, and Qswitched has delivered a masterpiece, but I'm very curious how future updates will shake things up. The main foreseeable nerf to lasers would probably be more realistic and detailed radiators. A major buff to them (aside from FEL's or mirror drones) would be more realistic modelling of ablation, instead of giving lasers an arbitrary ablation cap. Every weapon type has foreseeable buffs and nerfs as the game improves.
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Post by ironclad6 on Aug 27, 2017 6:45:30 GMT
This game has been an absolute godsend to me. Improved my work a thousand fold, and for the most part I really respect the community here.
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Post by bigbombr on Aug 27, 2017 7:41:09 GMT
This game has been an absolute godsend to me. Improved my work a thousand fold, and for the most part I really respect the community here. True. Before, I knew spacecraft needed radiators, but I didn't fully realise how much radiators high-powered spacecraft need. Which is why I really hope more realistic and detailed radiators will be in the next patch. If anything is going to break laserstars, it will be more realistic radiators.
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Post by ironclad6 on Aug 27, 2017 8:18:51 GMT
I would love to be able to retract my rads and use my remass as a heatsink.
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Post by bigbombr on Aug 27, 2017 8:23:04 GMT
I would love to be able to retract my rads and use my remass as a heatsink. Using waste heat to heat propellant as a 'pre-heater' for thermal engines? I'd like that too. Considering the outer coolant loops of our reactors often run at 2400-2500 K, this might be a good idea.
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Post by ironclad6 on Aug 27, 2017 8:56:03 GMT
My main remass is common boron. It's just sitting there so I may as well make it useful.
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Post by bigbombr on Aug 27, 2017 9:14:49 GMT
My main remass is common boron. It's just sitting there so I may as well make it useful. Boron is hardly common. Why not use water or methane? Much more plentiful.
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