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Post by docfizzix on Jun 3, 2017 20:20:53 GMT
So I've been goofing around with gundrones after getting bored with laser drones and came up with two monsters of a heavy drone that seem to outperform their stock counterparts in almost all metrics by a truly nutso degree. The first design, the HD-1, which outperforms the Stinger in all metrics except maneuverability:  A standard-size fleet of these drones has a power output of about 42.36 MW per second of kinetic energy, and fires 1,200 5-gram rounds per second for a throw weight of 60 kg/s. Already, they wipe out the Vesta Overkill fleet without much issue. However, me being pretty much insane, I decided to go bigger. This is the HD-2 model, which outperforms the stock Hellfire in firepower, mass, and survivability.  It has a throw weight of 2.19kg per drone per second, for 14.1MJ per drone per second. When deployed in the standard 20-drone wing, they get about 282 MJ/s. However, when the carrier flushes its racks and deploys all 100 HD-2 drones, the drone fleet has 1.41 TW per second of kinetic energy flying downrange. This is what said 1.41TW/s looks like headed your way:  This is the typical effect on target of about a terawatt-second of kinetic energy:  The only ship in the Vesta fleet that didn't get cut into at least two pieces was the Cutter, and that's because it got knocked out of the fire lane just after it was disabled. The drones are fairly well armored against lasers (certainly aren't insta-popped like the stock designs are). Here's an entirely mediocre carrier design that carries 200 of the HD-1s and 100 of the HD-2s, as well as its own mediocre 100km laserdrone escort array, flares in case that array gets lost in the woods or something, and 4 multi-purpose railguns. To say this is the most powerful ship I've ever created in terms of net firepower is an understatement.  Here's the design export. Have fun. |
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Post by Enderminion on Jun 3, 2017 23:21:07 GMT
the big issue I see with you're drones, is HV railguns, those are conventional cannons if I'm not wrong which means one of my ships railgun batteries (which can pop a 1m^2 missile 40km out) can sweep the field with your drones and they don't have quite enough armor to take HV impacts
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Post by RiftandRend on Jun 4, 2017 0:27:24 GMT
The Delta-V on those drones is fairly low for playermade standards. 6 km/s is about the safe minimum. This is a particular issue for the HD-2. 2.7 km/s and 444 mg/s2 means that most capital ships can easily outrun them.
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Post by Rocket Witch on Jun 4, 2017 1:33:29 GMT
The Delta-V on those drones is fairly low for playermade standards. 6 km/s is about the safe minimum. This is a particular issue for the HD-2. 2.7 km/s and 444 mg/s 2 means that most capital ships can easily outrun them. That's a lot of delta-v for the capital ship to spend at that kind of acceleration though, which MPDTs certainly won't produce, so it's going to be dropping a lot of mass to evade like that. If a drone wave forces such manoeuvres out of the enemy capitals, it's already achieved a degree of mission success. How much of a success this is depends how expendable the drones are, and these are large drones, but they're still likely to be less valuable than their delta-v worth of burn from a capital fleet. I did briefly operate a demicapital gunship and used it in completion of the final campaign mission. It wasn't deemed a success, but looking at it now, it could certainly have put the 30MW powerplant to better use. Note the refueler on the tender; these were meant to be recovered. |
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Post by RiftandRend on Jun 4, 2017 2:04:53 GMT
The Delta-V on those drones is fairly low for playermade standards. 6 km/s is about the safe minimum. This is a particular issue for the HD-2. 2.7 km/s and 444 mg/s 2 means that most capital ships can easily outrun them. That's a lot of delta-v for the capital ship to spend at that kind of acceleration though, which MPDTs certainly won't produce, so it's going to be dropping a lot of mass to evade like that. If a drone wave forces such manoeuvres out of the enemy capitals, it's already achieved a degree of mission success. How much of a success this is depends how expendable the drones are, and these are large drones, but they're still likely to be less valuable than their delta-v worth of burn from a capital fleet. I did briefly operate a demicapital gunship and used it in completion of the final campaign mission. It wasn't deemed a success, but looking at it now, it could certainly have put the 30MW powerplant to better use. Note the refueler on the tender; these were meant to be recovered. Fair enough, but such a low Delta-V limits the drone's useful ness around the larger planets, notably jupiter. Also, please put you giant images in spoilers, it takes ages for my potato internet to load them and clutters the post for people just reading comments. |
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Post by apophys on Jun 4, 2017 23:55:19 GMT
That's a lot of delta-v for the capital ship to spend at that kind of acceleration though, which MPDTs certainly won't produce Depends on how far ahead the MPD ship can see them coming. With no stealth, that's indefinite distance, so yes, the MPD can outrun them easily. Still, a capital cannot run away from every drone wave if there are enough waves (unless it runs to a place in the solar system that 6 km/s can never reach, but that means a strategic defeat). So it is safest to send missiles/drones to intercept, even when the target has as low dV as this. Note though that an MPD-based interception fleet will be able to dictate the speed of closure for the most part (before entering combat), which is a significant advantage. |
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Post by ash19256 on Jun 5, 2017 20:23:07 GMT
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Post by Dhan on Jun 19, 2017 23:15:29 GMT
That's a lot of delta-v for the capital ship to spend at that kind of acceleration though, which MPDTs certainly won't produce Depends on how far ahead the MPD ship can see them coming. With no stealth, that's indefinite distance, so yes, the MPD can outrun them easily. Still, a capital cannot run away from every drone wave if there are enough waves (unless it runs to a place in the solar system that 6 km/s can never reach, but that means a strategic defeat). So it is safest to send missiles/drones to intercept, even when the target has as low dV as this. Note though that an MPD-based interception fleet will be able to dictate the speed of closure for the most part (before entering combat), which is a significant advantage. That only works under the assumption that the drones have been launched from far enough away that they can be detected and outran on MPDs. |
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Post by RiftandRend on Jun 19, 2017 23:55:34 GMT
Depends on how far ahead the MPD ship can see them coming. With no stealth, that's indefinite distance, so yes, the MPD can outrun them easily. Still, a capital cannot run away from every drone wave if there are enough waves (unless it runs to a place in the solar system that 6 km/s can never reach, but that means a strategic defeat). So it is safest to send missiles/drones to intercept, even when the target has as low dV as this. Note though that an MPD-based interception fleet will be able to dictate the speed of closure for the most part (before entering combat), which is a significant advantage. That only works under the assumption that the drones have been launched from far enough away that they can be detected and outran on MPDs. But the MPDT ships could just stay far enough from the launchers that they can outrun any launched drones. |
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Post by Dhan on Jun 20, 2017 0:12:12 GMT
That only works under the assumption that the drones have been launched from far enough away that they can be detected and outran on MPDs. But the MPDT ships could just stay far enough from the launchers that they can outrun any launched drones. That's not a very effective ship then if it's passively forced out of the mission area. However, this also assumes that you know the ships are capable of launching drones. And although infared stealth is impossible, it would be much harder to see drone bay doors from any useful distance. Said drone bays can also be camouflaged or disguised and aside from size, bear no indication on the drones held inside which could even be tanker drones. Note to self, paint some drone bay doors on all my ships. |
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Post by apophys on Jun 20, 2017 0:35:19 GMT
But the MPDT ships could just stay far enough from the launchers that they can outrun any launched drones. That's not a very effective ship then if it's passively forced out of the mission area. The statement is not that it must stay away, but that it is able to. The choice of whether or not to engage is decided by the MPD user, which is undoubtedly an advantage. The stay-away distance isn't excessively large. Also, an unarmed & unarmored drone carrier would have to stay out of engagement range always, but cannot be called ineffective due to the drones it tosses. |
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Post by Dhan on Jun 20, 2017 1:12:32 GMT
That's not a very effective ship then if it's passively forced out of the mission area. The statement is not that it must stay away, but that it is able to. The choice of whether or not to engage is decided by the MPD user, which is undoubtedly an advantage. The stay-away distance isn't excessively large. More delta V is always better, no doubt. And technically all ships have the ability to stay away, unless you are building them inside enemy territory. The important characteristic is whether or not the ship can disengage, which may or may not be possible if someone pops out drones your ship can't handle. That's not a very effective ship then if it's passively forced out of the mission area. Also, an unarmed & unarmored drone carrier would have to stay out of engagement range always, but cannot be called ineffective due to the drones it tosses. True. Unless you throw some micrometers of graphogel on your drone carrier and try to make them think you have more combat ships that you actually do. |
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Post by Enderminion on Jun 20, 2017 14:08:43 GMT
maybe ultralight MPD bus with a few missiles strapped to the front for terminal attack (make up a 5+km/s Velocity difference over 33 minutes and 20 seconds)
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