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Post by Enderminion on May 25, 2017 18:40:30 GMT
I wonder... Is dissociation that powerful? Possibly. Dissociation of Metallized Hydrogen, for example, is more energetic than standard (i.e. NERVA) nuclear rocketry. Of course, I doubt hydrocarbons are quite as energetic, otherwise a fuel tanker would have yield in the hundreds of tonnes and if terrorists realized this we'd be super fucked. they carry hundreds of tonnes anyways, you under-estimated that yield, a lot
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Post by Rocket Witch on May 26, 2017 2:17:03 GMT
( COADE assumes that everything is built using perfect molecular manufacturing methods, though it ignores many other implications of that tech: bulk materials are weak because they have tiny cracks or steps in them that concentrate stress at their tips and propagate through the material to cause breakage if the stress becomes great enough. Our materials should be far stronger if they're assembled so perfectly) Does it really? I've never seen qswitched explicitly state this (whether through the game's infolinks or on the blog), or even imply it as strongly as everyone seems to think. Material prices are grounded on solar abundance of the elements, but I think the idea there was to make the minimal number of assumptions about a space-based economy. Just totalling up how much stuff there is in Sol and not being concerned with how it is acquired or machined or anything. The game's economic model, such as it is, arguably answers too few questions, leading to wild mass guessing about how the middle steps of collection, processing and manufacturing work from the flawless performance of overoptimal module designs.
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Post by nerd1000 on May 26, 2017 4:04:30 GMT
( COADE assumes that everything is built using perfect molecular manufacturing methods, though it ignores many other implications of that tech: bulk materials are weak because they have tiny cracks or steps in them that concentrate stress at their tips and propagate through the material to cause breakage if the stress becomes great enough. Our materials should be far stronger if they're assembled so perfectly) Does it really? I've never seen qswitched explicitly state this (whether through the game's infolinks or on the blog), or even imply it as strongly as everyone seems to think. Material prices are grounded on solar abundance of the elements, but I think the idea there was to make the minimal number of assumptions about a space-based economy. Just totalling up how much stuff there is in Sol and not being concerned with how it is acquired or machined or anything. The game's economic model, such as it is, arguably answers too few questions, leading to wild mass guessing about how the middle steps of collection, processing and manufacturing work from the flawless performance of overoptimal module designs. Many of the things we make in-game (like diamond exhaust nozzles, amorphous carbon turbopump impellers or gigantic laser rods) are basically impossible to build without molecular manufacturing.
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Post by Rocket Witch on May 26, 2017 4:50:38 GMT
Many of the things we make in-game (like diamond exhaust nozzles, amorphous carbon turbopump impellers or gigantic laser rods) are basically impossible to build without molecular manufacturing. It is a side-effect of the game's procedural design (by which I mean the game itself is procedural, not just the ship/module designers) that something like diamond can be used for, say, armour, just because it has physical properties that were given to it for use in arclamps. Molecular manufacturing is I think a fair interpretation of the setting, but the truth of it is improbable if the basis for it comes from the nature of the game. CDE cannot reasonably be made into a total simulation of reality and yet must incorporate freeform design within a sufficiently realistic framework with the purpose of asking questions without imposing limits which may potentially be unknowingly undue. The placements of certain materials within the data (such as diamond in crystals.txt instead of nonmetals.txt) reveal what qswitched had in mind as the 'intended' purpose for them — the reason they're present to begin with.
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Post by zuthal on May 26, 2017 11:04:47 GMT
I wonder... Is dissociation that powerful? Possibly. Dissociation of Metallized Hydrogen, for example, is more energetic than standard (i.e. NERVA) nuclear rocketry. Of course, I doubt hydrocarbons are quite as energetic, otherwise a fuel tanker would have yield in the hundreds of tonnes and if terrorists realized this we'd be super fucked. Metallic H actually has a positive enthalpy of formation - this means that it actually releases energy when dissociating and then recombining into H2 gas. On the other hand, hydrocarbons have a negative enthalpy of formation, so there dissociation (even with recombination of the hydrogen into H2) consumes energy. That was I think also the problem with resistojets violating energy conservation - energy lost to dissociation was not being modeled.
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Post by leerooooooy on May 26, 2017 15:14:20 GMT
I bet they wouldn't. The game does not model at all many key factors that would be critical IRL, like materials weakening as they approach melting temperature, and even beyond that the game has bugs and approximations that can lead to nonphysical results, see resistojets violating conservation of energy IIRC, that was due to dissociation of the propellant. It happened for hydrogen, mercury, and xenon too, so I doubt it.
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Post by Rocket Witch on May 26, 2017 20:07:59 GMT
That was I think also the problem with resistojets violating energy conservation - energy lost to dissociation was not being modeled. Was? So that's fixed? If so argonbalt ought to unsticky the thread on it. It happened for hydrogen, mercury, and xenon too, so I doubt it. It should happen for hydrogen since it's H2. Same for oxygen being O2. I think every other element is monatomic though.
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Post by argonbalt on May 27, 2017 7:10:48 GMT
That was I think also the problem with resistojets violating energy conservation - energy lost to dissociation was not being modeled. Was? So that's fixed? If so argonbalt ought to unsticky the thread on it. Is that fixed now.
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Post by The Astronomer on May 27, 2017 8:40:29 GMT
Methane BondDissociationEnergy_kJ__mol 1656
Weird.
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Post by apophys on May 27, 2017 15:16:24 GMT
Was? So that's fixed? If so argonbalt ought to unsticky the thread on it. Is that fixed now. No, it isn't. My ancient decane resistojets remain far over-efficient; nothing about them has changed.
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Post by Rocket Witch on May 27, 2017 16:23:32 GMT
Methane BondDissociationEnergy_kJ__mol 1656 Weird. What's weird about that? It's not even a large number for this. Material Ethane BondDissociationEnergy_kJ__mol 2810.8
Material Tetrafluoromethane BondDissociationEnergy_kJ__mol 2060
Material Nitromethane BondDissociationEnergy_kJ__mol 2854.63
Material Ethylene Oxide BondDissociationEnergy_kJ__mol 2722.78
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Post by The Astronomer on May 27, 2017 17:06:13 GMT
Methane BondDissociationEnergy_kJ__mol 1656 Weird. What's weird about that? It's not even a large number for this. Material Ethane BondDissociationEnergy_kJ__mol 2810.8
Material Tetrafluoromethane BondDissociationEnergy_kJ__mol 2060
Material Nitromethane BondDissociationEnergy_kJ__mol 2854.63
Material Ethylene Oxide BondDissociationEnergy_kJ__mol 2722.78 Sorry, I got the wrong one. It was supposed to be this: EnthalpyOfFormation_kJ__mol -74.87
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Post by Rocket Witch on May 27, 2017 18:41:06 GMT
Sorry, I got the wrong one. It was supposed to be this: EnthalpyOfFormation_kJ__mol -74.87 Negative enthalpies of formation are normal too.
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Post by leerooooooy on May 30, 2017 17:46:02 GMT
It should happen for hydrogen since it's H2. Same for oxygen being O2. I think every other element is monatomic though. U wot m8. Monoatomic hydrogen spontaneously recombines into H2 liberating a gigantic amount of energy (218 kJ/mol), H2 dissociation increasing engine power would be nonsensical. Edit: examples of nonphisical Argon and Mercury Resistojets imgur.com/a/Yc4Ug
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Post by argonbalt on Jun 1, 2017 2:17:38 GMT
U wot m8. Monoatomic hydrogen spontaneously recombines into H2 liberating a gigantic amount of energy (218 kJ/mol), H2 dissociation increasing engine power would be nonsensical. Edit: examples of nonphisical Argon and Mercury Resistojets imgur.com/a/Yc4UgHow is Ar $$ and Density vs Neon?
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