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Post by RiftandRend on Jun 15, 2017 9:12:40 GMT
Oh. I feel silly for not realising that.
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Post by Enderminion on Jun 15, 2017 12:20:05 GMT
So the 5 Teraton nuke interceptor. Dude, that is like 500,000x more powerful than the 10 Megatron nukes I've been able to make. Did you edit your limits.txt or did you use the wrong metric prefix? That is a hundred thousand times more powerful than the largest bomb ever built; That is not an interceptor, that is the most fearsome weapon ever designed by man. Srsly. my interceptor costs 610kc, not much for me, I haven't gotton flak anti-missile to work Sir, my main 1.02 Kt missile costs 485c. It's shot out of a cannon at 2km/s every second (so 2km spacing). I only carry a thousand missiles on the battleship, but my missiles are also fused to go off on closest approach against everything. Your missile vs. my missile? I'll take that trade everyday. And furthermore the megameter laser on the battleship means that I can engage your interceptor at extreme range and take one or 2 pot shots for every giant "interceptor" sent my way. where did you get teratons from? I don't remember saying anything like that.
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Post by Hicks on Jun 15, 2017 16:18:31 GMT
I'll try to be more clear in the future. 1.02 Kt yield, masses 20.5 kg, costs 485c. They only have 1kps dV, but there's five hundred to a thousand of them, depending on whether we're talking about my destroyer or battleship. And they come with a free 2km/s boost from a conventional cannon. Nobody with an NTR, MPD, or Resistor jet has +500km/s dV to dodge that.
Now there are breakpoints. My 85t yield mini nuke costs 98c, but the square-cube law bites pretty hard and harsh language would be more effective for everything other than a near contact detonation. The 1.02kt yield is more economical in yeild/c, which is still large enough to not need a contact detonation, still small enough to slip past most CIWS, armored enough to tank most laser fire, and comes at a price point where you can just toss a few hundred in series and not worry if most of them get through; you only need to get ~30 near to take down a gunship. Out of hundreds.
I found that for nukes, less is more as long as you have more of less. I just don't see how a multi-Kc missile is supposed to survive or be cost effective in the micro-missle/drone meta.
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Post by Hicks on Jun 15, 2017 16:21:57 GMT
You didn't. aiyel was the one who off handedly mentioned using a 5TT warhead as an anti-missle sweeper. More like an anti-everything sweeper.
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Post by RiftandRend on Jun 15, 2017 23:21:03 GMT
I'll try to be more clear in the future. 1.02 Kt yield, masses 20.5 kg, costs 485c. They only have 1kps dV, but there's five hundred to a thousand of them, depending on whether we're talking about my destroyer or battleship. And they come with a free 2km/s boost from a conventional cannon. Nobody with an NTR, MPD, or Resistor jet has +500km/s dV to dodge that. Now there are breakpoints. My 85t yield mini nuke costs 98c, but the square-cube law bites pretty hard and harsh language would be more effective for everything other than a near contact detonation. The 1.02kt yield is more economical in yeild/c, which is still large enough to not need a contact detonation, still small enough to slip past most CIWS, armored enough to tank most laser fire, and comes at a price point where you can just toss a few hundred in series and not worry if most of them get through; you only need to get ~30 near to take down a gunship. Out of hundreds. I found that for nukes, less is more as long as you have more of less. I just don't see how a multi-Kc missile is supposed to survive or be cost effective in the micro-missle/drone meta. The issue I see with your rocket cannon is range. If the enemy is more than 3 km/s away from you you can't attack with it. This makes it quite difficult to use around jupiter. Can I get the code for you missile and cannon? I may be able to improve the effective dV.
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Post by Dhan on Jun 16, 2017 1:15:28 GMT
So the 5 Teraton nuke interceptor. Dude, that is like 500,000x more powerful than the 10 Megatron nukes I've been able to make. Did you edit your limits.txt or did you use the wrong metric prefix? That is a hundred thousand times more powerful than the largest bomb ever built; That is not an interceptor, that is the most fearsome weapon ever designed by man. Srsly. Sir, my main 1.02 Kt missile costs 485c. It's shot out of a cannon at 2km/s every second (so 2km spacing). I only carry a thousand missiles on the battleship, but my missiles are also fused to go off on closest approach against everything. Your missile vs. my missile? I'll take that trade everyday. And furthermore the megameter laser on the battleship means that I can engage your interceptor at extreme range and take one or 2 pot shots for every giant "interceptor" sent my way. Did you make a typo? I don't think 1 Kt of anything is that cheap. Aha! But that's where you are wrong my friend. Sure the delta V could use some work.. but it's getting there.
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Post by Hicks on Jun 16, 2017 5:49:52 GMT
The issue I see with your rocket cannon is range. If the enemy is more than 3 km/s away from you you can't attack with it. This makes it quite difficult to use around jupiter. Can I get the code for you missile and cannon? I may be able to improve the effective dV. Sure! It'll take a bit cuz I'm posting from a phone. On the one hand, there are at least 2 improvements: firstly I could've used a fluorine rocket instead of a methane NTR, but I have a personal distaste for fluorine and wanted my entire fleet on a single type of reaction mass. Secondly I could reduce the armor package, which would also help in reducing cost but lower survivability. BUT I DISAGREE WITH YOUR PREMISE, MY GOOD SIR. Although the missile only has 1 Km/s dV, and it gets a 2 Km/s kick from the cannon, it is mounted on vessels with a 39.7 or 72.6 Km/s dV MPD, which, although NOT the docteine i subscribe to, would be sufficient to intercept nearly anywhere in the solar system. Plot your intercept with the ship, boost with the cannon, fine tune/terminal with the missile; the destroyer/battleship could expend 15~30 dV to boost the missiles anywhere. BUT EVEN THAT PREMISE IS FALLICIOUS, GOOD SIR. In the context of missile and drone interception, an interceptor missile's dV is nearly irrelevant. You are intercepting an attack that already expended the dV to intercept you! Your choices are to expend more dV than the incoming ordinance or shoot it down. All interception missiles need is a boost to encounter the incoming ordinance first and enough dV for terminal guidance. Which is weirdly, mostly due to how I haven't figured out how to aim a conventional cannon on the map screen with any accuracy, is best done in the encounter screen at 1Mm range. In closing, due to their mass and cost, my missiles are supposed to be used to favorably trade with enemy drones and missiles. The vessels they were designed for (the DD/BB) close the distance, strip the enemy with a big-ass laser (not too big, 100Mw/1Gw respectively), and the cannon launched missile is used to actually kill enemy vessels. Like I said. I'm posting from a phone, but as soon as I'm able I'll post the stuff in the design thread.
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Post by RiftandRend on Jun 16, 2017 7:23:13 GMT
Ill be away from my computer for a week, so I won't be able to do anything until then.
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Post by Hicks on Jun 16, 2017 15:54:14 GMT
So I checked, and I've been slightly unfair to you. Because it is shot out of a cannon, my missile costs an additional 1,555c for 50kg of TNT, which brings the ordinance package up to 2,049c. Geez, TNT is expensive!
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Post by Durandal on Jul 2, 2017 16:19:31 GMT
You would not be able to get cost effective interceptors using such a method. If you array your missiles in a wide formation (1 km minimum spacing) even multi megaton nukes would be unable to kill more than 2-3. Considering that any practical anti-ship missile uses some type of fragmentation warhead you would be unable to make cost effective trades. my interceptor costs 610kc, not much for me, I haven't gotton flak anti-missile to work 610 KILO-credits?!? Why not just shoot Neptunium out of a PD railgun?
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Post by treptoplax on Jul 2, 2017 23:41:06 GMT
I've been handling flares by having my "missiles" be technically drones, with either a low velocity gun (think of it as a final stage KKV with a TNT engine) or a launcher containing super-tiny gun drones set to appropriate range. Works pretty well.
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Post by Enderminion on Jul 3, 2017 2:06:51 GMT
my interceptor costs 610kc, not much for me, I haven't gotton flak anti-missile to work 610 KILO-credits?!? Why not just shoot Neptunium out of a PD railgun? the missile does not cost that much, the 9.6 megaton nuclear bomb on the front costs that much
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