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Post by batflag on May 16, 2017 16:44:23 GMT
Maybe a good balance is 300 km engagement range maximum? I'm interested in knowing if a well-designed kinetic weapon can overcome a laser in realistic conditions, so I don't want to hobble lasers. But I also want to see recording of the action at a reasonable frame rate. We should probably just pick a limit, let everyone prepare their entries, and see what happens.
Are there effective lasers that can do serious damage at greater than 300 km, on a vessel smaller than 1 kt and 2 Mc?
Once we have the rules set, we can have one person run the tournament using shiolle's rules which sound good to me. Who will run the organized tournament? randommechanicumguy, AdmiralObvious? if this turns out to be too much of a burden then we can decentralize the process by having each contestant download the other's design, then compare results after running it a few times.
We still need to pick a standard location. Small or large gravity well?
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Post by AdmiralObvious on May 16, 2017 17:00:56 GMT
Maybe a good balance is 300 km engagement range maximum? I'm interested in knowing if a well-designed kinetic weapon can overcome a laser in realistic conditions, so I don't want to hobble lasers. But I also want to see recording of the action at a reasonable frame rate. We should probably just pick a limit, let everyone prepare their entries, and see what happens. Are there effective lasers that can do serious damage at greater than 300 km, on a vessel smaller than 1 kt and 2 Mc? Once we have the rules set, we can have one person run the tournament using shiolle's rules which sound good to me. Who will run the organized tournament? randommechanicumguy, AdmiralObvious? if this turns out to be too much of a burden then we can decentralize the process by having each contestant download the other's design, then compare results after running it a few times. We still need to pick a standard location. Small or large gravity well? Again, I'm not opposed to running the tourney, assuming my work schedule allows for it. For the celestial body, I'd personally like Luna, Mars, or something within the sphere of Jupiter (though combat AI can't really handle orbital mechanics too well at the center of Jupiter's gravity well).
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Post by apophys on May 16, 2017 17:38:21 GMT
Maybe a good balance is 300 km engagement range maximum? I'm interested in knowing if a well-designed kinetic weapon can overcome a laser in realistic conditions, so I don't want to hobble lasers. But I also want to see recording of the action at a reasonable frame rate. We should probably just pick a limit, let everyone prepare their entries, and see what happens. Are there effective lasers that can do serious damage at greater than 300 km, on a vessel smaller than 1 kt and 2 Mc? Once we have the rules set, we can have one person run the tournament using shiolle's rules which sound good to me. Who will run the organized tournament? randommechanicumguy, AdmiralObvious? if this turns out to be too much of a burden then we can decentralize the process by having each contestant download the other's design, then compare results after running it a few times. We still need to pick a standard location. Small or large gravity well? My laser drone posted earlier can do serious damage at 1 Mm (max range in an unmodified game), on a platform less than 8 tons, and costing 120 kc. With over 50 km/s delta-V to boot. I can put 10 of these drones on a carrier within 2 Mc. Btw, I also have a 100 km/s railgun that could be usable in this tournament... I really wasn't kidding when I suggested banning slow guns due to their lag when facing serious lasers... I like larger gravity wells (maybe Uranus? ;p ). If things start too close together, one can be inside the engagement range of the other, and then they never actually engage. (I cannot run the tournament; my laptop is an old potato.)
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Post by tukuro on May 16, 2017 18:02:19 GMT
Maybe a good balance is 300 km engagement range maximum? I'm interested in knowing if a well-designed kinetic weapon can overcome a laser in realistic conditions, so I don't want to hobble lasers. But I also want to see recording of the action at a reasonable frame rate. We should probably just pick a limit, let everyone prepare their entries, and see what happens. Are there effective lasers that can do serious damage at greater than 300 km, on a vessel smaller than 1 kt and 2 Mc? Once we have the rules set, we can have one person run the tournament using shiolle's rules which sound good to me. Who will run the organized tournament? randommechanicumguy, AdmiralObvious? if this turns out to be too much of a burden then we can decentralize the process by having each contestant download the other's design, then compare results after running it a few times. I'm all for doing an "open" tournament. I see it more as an exercise in engineering anyway. Besides, it often takes a lot more than 3 battles to figure out the effectiveness of a design, and doing that for every design or category takes a lot of time. I also don't think we need to limit engagement ranges. My only recommendation would be to limit them to where they can actually do damage. Big (gas giant/inner planet) vs Small (moons/asteroids) gravity well definitely makes a difference. I'd suggest we design a custom "mission" so we can standardize the conditions.
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Post by apophys on May 16, 2017 18:37:00 GMT
My only recommendation would be to limit them to where they can actually do damage. This is problematic to define, because an intensity that will damage graphite aerogel may do absolutely nothing to diamond. I personally aim for 20 MW/m 2 intensity as a useful threshold (melts everything decently), but others may have different philosophies.
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Post by RiftandRend on May 16, 2017 19:13:51 GMT
I might participate if limit editing is allowed. All of my recent work as been into micro gram railguns.
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Post by Enderminion on May 16, 2017 21:42:38 GMT
Maybe a good balance is 300 km engagement range maximum? I'm interested in knowing if a well-designed kinetic weapon can overcome a laser in realistic conditions, so I don't want to hobble lasers. But I also want to see recording of the action at a reasonable frame rate. We should probably just pick a limit, let everyone prepare their entries, and see what happens. Are there effective lasers that can do serious damage at greater than 300 km, on a vessel smaller than 1 kt and 2 Mc? Once we have the rules set, we can have one person run the tournament using shiolle's rules which sound good to me. Who will run the organized tournament? randommechanicumguy, AdmiralObvious? if this turns out to be too much of a burden then we can decentralize the process by having each contestant download the other's design, then compare results after running it a few times. I'm all for doing an "open" tournament. I see it more as an exercise in engineering anyway. Besides, it often takes a lot more than 3 battles to figure out the effectiveness of a design, and doing that for every design or category takes a lot of time. I also don't think we need to limit engagement ranges. My only recommendation would be to limit them to where they can actually do damage. Big (gas giant/inner planet) vs Small (moons/asteroids) gravity well definitely makes a difference. I'd suggest we design a custom "mission" so we can standardize the conditions. I think the Moon of Earth is a good compromise between high/low gravity and size
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Post by AdmiralObvious on May 16, 2017 23:19:55 GMT
I'm all for doing an "open" tournament. I see it more as an exercise in engineering anyway. Besides, it often takes a lot more than 3 battles to figure out the effectiveness of a design, and doing that for every design or category takes a lot of time. I also don't think we need to limit engagement ranges. My only recommendation would be to limit them to where they can actually do damage. Big (gas giant/inner planet) vs Small (moons/asteroids) gravity well definitely makes a difference. I'd suggest we design a custom "mission" so we can standardize the conditions. I think the Moon of Earth is a good compromise between high/low gravity and size That was my first idea when we suggested doing this. Nice "average" gravity, and certian shots can work rather well for later advertising, especially if the "dead earth" is in frame.
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Post by batflag on May 16, 2017 23:52:48 GMT
Until now I hadn't checked how much 2 Mc buys you compared to my own designs. Unfortunately I probably wouldn't have an entry for the tournament if we use that criteria. Just not enough time to reoptimize for cost.
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Post by AdmiralObvious on May 17, 2017 0:17:40 GMT
Considering the cheapest stock ship is 8 Mc (gunskiff), i'm really not sure if 2 Mc will be viable. 5 Mc seems reasonably possible (ignoring armor), but 2 Mc is just too tiny (damn humans and their needs for "food"). Weight is pretty easy to abide by though, since for most, the propellant is probably 70% of the mass.
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Post by Argopeilacos on May 17, 2017 6:58:08 GMT
Are NTRs viable with the delta-v/mass budget?
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Post by randommechanicumguy on May 17, 2017 7:54:11 GMT
Are NTRs viable with the delta-v/mass budget? probably if it's optimised enough. also I agree on the moon being a good place to place the battles over if phobos isn't an option
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Post by The Astronomer on May 17, 2017 7:58:29 GMT
Are NTRs viable with the delta-v/mass budget? probably if it's optimised enough. also I agree on the moon being a good place to place the battles over if phobos isn't an option What...?
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Post by apophys on May 17, 2017 8:43:24 GMT
Are NTRs viable with the delta-v/mass budget? They can certainly be used, but I don't see them being worth the cost (as a general rule). When you already run a decently strong (100 MW +) reactor for your weapons, an MPD will get you from point A to point B with much less propellant, therefore much lighter and cheaper. NTRs have their niche with in-combat dodging of enemy projectiles. This is nice capability to have, for sure, but it's not essential. If your enemy does not use guns at all, it can turn out to be a waste. Every vessel I build currently has an MPD. Only some have additional NTRs. None have resistojets.
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Post by randommechanicumguy on May 17, 2017 17:54:31 GMT
probably if it's optimised enough. also I agree on the moon being a good place to place the battles over if phobos isn't an option What...? on sandbox mode you can't set the location as phobos. I was thinking of it as it has a low gravity and you will have a decent tug from Mars. It could create some interesting scenarios
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