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Post by AdmiralObvious on May 15, 2017 21:40:03 GMT
1. 200 missiles or drones allowed, per side of engagement (400 total) I think that could be increased to 800 total (between both sides). It's going to tank performance, but otherwise its still within bounds. Perhaps even more if only one side is using missiles. If we use unmodified AI, there should be no more than 50 missiles/drones in any engagement (save for drone fleet interceptions of missiles and vice versa) excepting launchers set for personal defense. I see no reason to have a limit.
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Post by samchiu2000 on May 15, 2017 23:32:53 GMT
After all shall we start a tournament thread in this forum so we can play "some sort of multiplayer" now? Or just wait till qswitched make it?
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Post by RiftandRend on May 16, 2017 1:18:21 GMT
I think that could be increased to 800 total (between both sides). It's going to tank performance, but otherwise its still within bounds. Perhaps even more if only one side is using missiles. If we use unmodified AI, there should be no more than 50 missiles/drones in any engagement (save for drone fleet interceptions of missiles and vice versa) excepting launchers set for personal defense. I see no reason to have a limit. Missile launching missiles can easily get around that limitation.
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Post by treptoplax on May 16, 2017 2:17:46 GMT
True, but you could still arrange a limit of 400 drones/missiles per engagement, by limiting the submunitions and limiting the number of drones in launchers that will launch based on range rather than the strategic map.
E.g., my 10MC carrier has 4000 mini drones, but when run by AI it never has more than 50 in flight at one unless directly attacked. Even that could be avoided if launch-based-on-range was disabled for that launcher and a second one with only a few hundred drones was used for local defense (and then the AI would probably stupidly empty that magazine at strategic range, but oh well).
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Post by AdmiralObvious on May 16, 2017 2:47:52 GMT
If we use unmodified AI, there should be no more than 50 missiles/drones in any engagement (save for drone fleet interceptions of missiles and vice versa) excepting launchers set for personal defense. I see no reason to have a limit. Missile launching missiles can easily get around that limitation. True, but I think the price/weight limits we've set so far should mitigate that a bit. Especially if we stay within the bounds of vanilla limits.
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Post by goduranus on May 16, 2017 3:25:45 GMT
I would like to add to that In the interest of moving things forward, I picked the rules below based on the discussions so far. I've made some choices where there is disagreement, so if someone has a strong feeling we can keep discussing. I'm still not sure about the AI.txt. I'd hate to lose nose forward orientation. 1. 200 missiles or drones allowed, per side of engagement (400 total between the opposing sides) 2. No limit to kinetic weapon rate of fire 3. No modified materials (at least for the initial tournament) 4. No modified limits.txt (at least for the initial tournament) 5. All material combinations allowable by the stock game are allowed (at least for the initial tournament) 6. 5 km/sec minimum delta-v 7. No use of turrets firing through armor glitch (or other exploits that are clearly violating physics) 8. Any hazardous crew conditions allowed by the game are allowed in the tournament 9. TO BE DECIDED: Custom AI is / is not allowed by editing the AI.txt and including with the UserDesigns.txt file (Sharing the AI file is quite a chore, mistakes could lead to crashes, let's keep it simple)10. Fleet limits of 1.0 kt and 25 Mc (2Mc is a minimum for a reasonable ship, setting that as a upper limit is gonna make it too hard for some people)The mass seems low to me, but for the sake of agreeing on a number I'm happy with it. 11. Limit laser and launcher range to 100km. (As soon as one side fires lasers, the AI on the other side will ignore range on all guns. If range is set to 1000km all those projectiles flying will generate tremendous lag. Projectiles despawn at the range of the intended target) 12. Unguided Payload guns should have their projectile lifetime set under 20 seconds(to unusing warhead timer or flare trigger)
Drones launching missiles is not expensive, and you could end up with all missiles being dumped in the same fight if both players use missiles, a quite possible scenario, since I will likely be one of those people.
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Post by samchiu2000 on May 16, 2017 3:29:06 GMT
I would like to add to that In the interest of moving things forward, I picked the rules below based on the discussions so far. I've made some choices where there is disagreement, so if someone has a strong feeling we can keep discussing. I'm still not sure about the AI.txt. I'd hate to lose nose forward orientation. 1. 200 missiles or drones allowed, per side of engagement (400 total between the opposing sides) 2. No limit to kinetic weapon rate of fire 3. No modified materials (at least for the initial tournament) 4. No modified limits.txt (at least for the initial tournament) 5. All material combinations allowable by the stock game are allowed (at least for the initial tournament) 6. 5 km/sec minimum delta-v 7. No use of turrets firing through armor glitch (or other exploits that are clearly violating physics) 8. Any hazardous crew conditions allowed by the game are allowed in the tournament 9. TO BE DECIDED: Custom AI is / is not allowed by editing the AI.txt and including with the UserDesigns.txt file (Sharing the AI file is quite a chore, mistakes could lead to crashes, let's keep it simple)10. Fleet limits of 1.0 kt and 25 Mc (2Mc is a minimum for a reasonable ship, setting that as a upper limit is gonna make it too hard for some people)The mass seems low to me, but for the sake of agreeing on a number I'm happy with it. 11. Limit laser and launcher range to 100km. (As soon as one side fires lasers, the AI on the other side will ignore range on all guns. If range is set to 1000km all those projectiles flying will generate tremendous lag. Projectiles despawn at the range of the intended target) 12. Unguided Payload guns should have their projectile lifetime set under 20 seconds(to unusing warhead timer or flare trigger)
I think it's better to ban all weapons expect guns if you want fun instead of REALISM!!!
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Post by goduranus on May 16, 2017 3:30:18 GMT
If that is sarcasm, just try it, find a stock ship and fire a 1000km laser at it. lag lag lag lag.
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Post by samchiu2000 on May 16, 2017 3:32:27 GMT
If that is sarcasm, just try it, find a stock ship and fire a 1000km laser at it. lag lag lag lag. Lag when using doomsday lasers? I don't feel so...
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Post by goduranus on May 16, 2017 3:57:45 GMT
Depends on whether the enemy fires back with ignore range. They actually don't do that now?
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Post by samchiu2000 on May 16, 2017 4:00:30 GMT
Depends on whether the enemy fires back with ignore range. They actually don't do that now? AI still fire outside its range iirc, and they don't survive long when facing my doomsday laser, which may decrease the Lag.
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Post by apophys on May 16, 2017 4:20:44 GMT
I would like to add to that Better: ban all guns with projectile speed under 50 km/s. *shots fired* Seriously though, cutting laser range that far horribly gimps them against missiles. The metagame is dominated by lasers and missiles.
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Post by goduranus on May 16, 2017 6:52:18 GMT
I would not mind banning 50km/s guns. Doesn't look like ships falling under our mass and cost limit would be able to carry guns like that in a useful way.
Also need a rule to prevent bug exploits. I am thinking of the massless/costless frontal armor bug, where you can put 10 meters of armor in the front at no cost.
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Post by randommechanicumguy on May 16, 2017 6:55:53 GMT
I would like to add to that Better: ban all guns with projectile speed under 50 km/s. *shots fired* Seriously though, cutting laser range that far horribly gimps them against missiles. The metagame is dominated by lasers and missiles. but isn't that a bad thing as this is the most lag Generating meta we have had so far. And this wouldn't happen if we limited the missle count any way
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Post by RiftandRend on May 16, 2017 9:20:19 GMT
I would not mind banning 50km/s guns. Doesn't look like ships falling under our mass and cost limit would be able to carry guns like that in a useful way. Also need a rule to prevent bug exploits. I am thinking of the massless/costless frontal armor bug, where you can put 10 meters of armor in the front at no cost. I think you missed what he said. "Better: ban all guns with projectile speed under 50 km/s."
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