|
Post by apophys on May 14, 2017 19:52:05 GMT
I'm skeptical of the design, super high DeltaV, but almost no acceleration. Depends on if we want transsolar combat or just orbital combat. My experience with the AI is that it likes to run drones out of dV, then label them as a derelict fleet because they ran out of dV. Giving them lots of dV means they're more likely not to be cheesed away. (Also, dV is very useful for manual play, especially using lasers.) Unfortunately, the AI seems to be too dumb to do interplanetary transfers. The most we can do is set both fleets around Jupiter, where the starting orbits are large. but what do i do to load the userdesigns.txt file into the game? sorry im dumb You can either put it into your imports folder (AppData\Roaming\CDE\Mods\Data\Imports) or paste the content directly into your own UserDesigns.txt file (AppData\Roaming\CDE).
|
|
|
Post by tukuro on May 14, 2017 21:15:18 GMT
so u want to set it to 1kc ? honestly, the limit on missiles shouldnt be cost, we should decide a limit. we still need a decent money limit so we can have some armor, and guns and stuff. 10MC, seems to little, IMHO. just make a hard limit on missile (like only 200 can be spawned in at a time) 500 t and 2 Mc. This seems minute compared to most ships posted here, but you really don't need much for the effectiveness of a design to become apparent. At minimum you'll probably spend about 1250-1500 kc on crew modules, reactor(s), propulsion and enough fuel for a somewhat decent ∆v budget. This still leaves 700-500 kc for armament, armour and additional propellant. Which is enough for laser stars, sandblasters and missile/drone swarms. Now some suggest just limiting volley sizes, but that severely limits missile effectiveness. Also note that if you increase the engagement range by thousands of km, even sandblasters will start to lag. We can always scale-up if things go well.
|
|
|
Post by goduranus on May 15, 2017 2:53:01 GMT
although good ships can be built within 2MC, a 2MC limit places severe restrictions on materials and design choices you could use. You'd be limited to boron for the crew capsule, less than 8 weapons systems because you cannot afford more gunners, reaction wheel turrets because you can't afford neodyium magnets, as well as no laser armor on the hull because all the laser resistant materials are quite expensive.
|
|
|
Post by apophys on May 15, 2017 4:08:44 GMT
You'd be limited to boron for the crew capsule Polyethylene. Marginally lighter and cheaper, and barely structurally sound at maximum extension. EDIT: Magnesium is better, due to cost.
|
|
|
Post by tukuro on May 15, 2017 5:18:54 GMT
although good ships can be built within 2MC, a 2MC limit places severe restrictions on materials and design choices you could use. You'd be limited to boron for the crew capsule, less than 8 weapons systems because you cannot afford more gunners, reaction wheel turrets because you can't afford neodyium magnets, as well as no laser armor on the hull because all the laser resistant materials are quite expensive. 2 Mc is definitely pushing it, but many of the things you've listed are still possible. For laser armour you can use both graphite or silica aerogel. Effective kinetic armour likewise, can still be designed. All at a fraction of the cost of the whole ship. More than 8 weapon systems is also possible. You can also choose to use different armour for crew modules, or neodymium for your actuators, but obviously cheaper alternatives exist. Below is an example of what you can build with 2 Mc, and it isn't even fully min-maxed. Though you can easily beat gunships or a small fleet of stock ships with it. Pictures:Schematics: ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule Capital 150 MW Fission Reactor UsesCustomName true ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.083 0.1 NuclearReactor Coolant Sodium Moderator Diamond ModeratorMass_kg 0 Fuel U-235 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 8.9 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.97 ControlRodComposition U-233 Dioxide ControlRodMass_kg 11 NeutronReflector Diamond ReflectorThickness_m 0 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 3e+019 InnerTurbopump Composition Diamond PumpRadius_m 0.58 RotationalSpeed_RPM 580 ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 1.89 1.89 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Osmium NTypeComposition Tungsten Length_m 0.001 ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 2500 OuterCoolant Sodium OuterTurbopump Composition Boron PumpRadius_m 0.3 RotationalSpeed_RPM 600
RadiatorModule Tournament Radiator - Front UsesCustomName true Composition Amorphous Carbon PanelWidth_m 0.35 Height_m 1.7 Thickness_m 0.001 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 20 FrontTaper_radians 0.357 BackTaper_radians 0.194 SurfaceFinish Molybdenum
NuclearThermalRocketModule Tournament 5.81 km/s Methane Nuclear Thruster UsesCustomName true ReactorCoreHeight_m 0.71 NuclearReactor Coolant Methane Moderator Graphite ModeratorMass_kg 0 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 50 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.97 ControlRodComposition Boron Nitride ControlRodMass_kg 63 NeutronReflector Boron Nitride ReflectorThickness_m 0 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 1.2e+020 ThermalRocket ChamberComposition Boron ThroatRadius_m 0.2 ChamberWallThickness_m 0.012 ChamberContractionRatio 13 NozzleExpansionRatio 70 NozzleExpansionAngle_degrees 11.77 RegenerativeCooling_Percent 0.158 Injector Composition Boron PumpRadius_m 0.6 RotationalSpeed_RPM 450 Gimbal InnerRadius_m 1.12 ArmorComposition Boron ArmorThickness_m 0.01 MomentumWheels Composition Calcium RotationalSpeed_RPM 4800 GimbalAngle_degrees 14.36
CrewModule 9 Crew Module UsesCustomName false CrewCapacity 9 Decks 3 StructureMaterial Boron ShellThickness_m 0.01
RadiationShieldModule Li6 8.00 m Diameter Radiation Shield UsesCustomName true Composition Lithium-6 Dimensions_m 4.5 0.01
RadiatorModule Tournament Radiator - Center II UsesCustomName true Composition Amorphous Carbon PanelWidth_m 0.5 Height_m 3 Thickness_m 0.001 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 20 FrontTaper_radians 0.357 BackTaper_radians 0.194 SurfaceFinish Molybdenum
RadiatorModule Tournament Radiator - Back UsesCustomName true Composition Amorphous Carbon PanelWidth_m 0.5 Height_m 4 Thickness_m 0.001 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 20 FrontTaper_radians 0.357 BackTaper_radians 0.194 SurfaceFinish Silicon Dioxide
RadiatorModule Decorative 0.01x10 Radiator - Silver UsesCustomName true Composition Amorphous Carbon PanelWidth_m 0.1 Height_m 10 Thickness_m 0.01 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 1 FrontTaper_radians 0 BackTaper_radians 0 SurfaceFinish Silver
CrewModule 9 Crew Module UsesCustomName false CrewCapacity 9 Decks 3 StructureMaterial Boron ShellThickness_m 0.01
PropellantTankModule 5.80 t Methane Tank UsesCustomName false Propellant Methane StructureComposition Boron ReactionMass_kg 5800 HeightToRadiusRatio 6.79 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
RadiatorModule Tournament Radiator - Center I UsesCustomName true Composition Amorphous Carbon PanelWidth_m 0.4 Height_m 2.5 Thickness_m 0.001 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 20 FrontTaper_radians 0.357 BackTaper_radians 0.194 SurfaceFinish Molybdenum
RailgunModule 49 MW 4mm Armored Railgun UsesCustomName true PowerConsumption_W 4.9e+007 Capacitor Count 1 DielectricComposition Hafnia Dimensions_m 0.34 0.078 Separation_m 2.6e-007 Rails Composition Aluminum Copper Lithium Thickness_m 0.1 Length_m 7 BarrelArmor Composition Graphite Aerogel Thickness_m 0.73 Armature Composition Vanadium Chromium Steel BoreRadius_m 0.0028 Mass_kg 0.001 Tracer Tin Payload null Loader PowerConsumption_W 1.4e+007 ExternalMount false InternalMount false Turret InnerRadius_m 1.2 Extruded true ArmorComposition Boron ArmorThickness_m 0.08 MomentumWheels Composition Selenium RotationalSpeed_RPM 900 AttachedAmmoBay Capacity 40000 Stacks 1 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
RefuelerModule 10 t/s Methane Auto-Refueler UsesCustomName true Pump Composition Boron PumpRadius_m 0.9 RotationalSpeed_RPM 397 FluidToPump Methane HoseLength_m 1000
PropellantTankModule 5.80 t Methane External Tank UsesCustomName true Propellant Methane StructureComposition Boron ReactionMass_kg 5800 HeightToRadiusRatio 6.79 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0 External ExplosiveBoltMass_kg 0 ExplosiveBoltComposition Cyclonite
PropellantTankModule 12.0 t Methane External Tank UsesCustomName false Propellant Methane StructureComposition Boron ReactionMass_kg 12000 HeightToRadiusRatio 12.35 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0 External ExplosiveBoltMass_kg 0 ExplosiveBoltComposition Cyclonite
RadiatorModule Tournament Decorative 0.2x0.2 Carbon Radiator UsesCustomName true Composition Amorphous Carbon PanelWidth_m 0.1 Height_m 1 Thickness_m 0.1 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 1 FrontTaper_radians 0 BackTaper_radians 0 SurfaceFinish Gold
RadiatorModule Tournament Decorative 0.2x0.2 Carbon Radiator - Front UsesCustomName true Composition Amorphous Carbon PanelWidth_m 0.15 Height_m 0.8 Thickness_m 0.1 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 1 FrontTaper_radians 1.111 BackTaper_radians 0 SurfaceFinish Gold
CraftBlueprint Tournament Ship Modules Capital 150 MW Fission Reactor 1 0 null 0 Tournament Radiator - Front 2 50.992 Capital 150 MW Fission Reactor 0 Tournament 5.81 km/s Methane Nuclear Thruster 1 -43.028 null 0 9 Crew Module 3 7.4726 null 0 Li6 8.00 m Diameter Radiation Shield 1 4.2648 null 0 Tournament Radiator - Center II 2 19.107 Capital 150 MW Fission Reactor 0 Tournament Radiator - Back 3 7.0428 9 Crew Module 0.53 Decorative 0.01x10 Radiator - Silver 2 1.6846 9 Crew Module 0 9 Crew Module 2 8.4726 null 0 5.80 t Methane Tank 19 11.18 null 0 5.80 t Methane Tank 13 12.18 null 0 5.80 t Methane Tank 9 13.18 null 0 5.80 t Methane Tank 4 14.18 null 0 Tournament Radiator - Center I 2 28.679 Capital 150 MW Fission Reactor 0 49 MW 4mm Armored Railgun 1 55.996 null 0 49 MW 4mm Armored Railgun 1 11.129 null 6.14 49 MW 4mm Armored Railgun 1 11.007 null 3.28 10 t/s Methane Auto-Refueler 1 11.307 null 1.57 5.80 t Methane External Tank 1 28.841 null 5.84 5.80 t Methane External Tank 1 28.718 null 3.58 5.80 t Methane External Tank 1 20.081 null 5.84 5.80 t Methane External Tank 1 19.959 null 3.58 12.0 t Methane External Tank 1 23.104 null 0.61 12.0 t Methane External Tank 1 22.981 null 2.53 Tournament Decorative 0.2x0.2 Carbon Radiator 1 31.84 Capital 150 MW Fission Reactor 4.72 Tournament Decorative 0.2x0.2 Carbon Radiator - Front 1 49.255 Capital 150 MW Fission Reactor 4.72 Tournament Decorative 0.2x0.2 Carbon Radiator 1 29.333 Capital 150 MW Fission Reactor 4.72 Tournament Decorative 0.2x0.2 Carbon Radiator 1 51.608 Capital 150 MW Fission Reactor 4.72 Tournament Decorative 0.2x0.2 Carbon Radiator 1 54.462 Capital 150 MW Fission Reactor 4.72 Tournament Decorative 0.2x0.2 Carbon Radiator 1 26.742 Capital 150 MW Fission Reactor 4.72 Tournament Decorative 0.2x0.2 Carbon Radiator 1 14.413 Capital 150 MW Fission Reactor 4.72 Tournament Decorative 0.2x0.2 Carbon Radiator 1 20.549 Capital 150 MW Fission Reactor 4.72 Tournament Decorative 0.2x0.2 Carbon Radiator 1 18.068 Capital 150 MW Fission Reactor 4.72 Armor ArmorLayers Graphite Aerogel 0.2 0 0 1 1 Titanium Nitride 0.0005 0 0 1 1 Graphite Aerogel 0.0005 0 0 1 0.525 Lithium 0.0005 0.02 0 1 0.5 Graphite Aerogel 0.0005 0 0 1 0.27 Lithium 0.0005 0.01 0 1 0.25 Graphite Aerogel 0.0005 0.01 0 1 0.02 Graphite Aerogel 0.0005 0.03 0 0.022 1 Graphite Aerogel 0.0005 0 0.599 0.846 0.52 Titanium Nitride 0.0005 0.04 0.604 0.841 1
Ship Info:- Mass: 488 t
- Cost: 1.98 Mc
- ∆v: 5.80 km/s
- Armament: 3x49 MW 30.2 km/s 456 kj 2400/60 RoF Railguns
- Armour: 500 μm Titanium Nitride + 20 cm Graphite Aerogel
|
|
|
Post by goduranus on May 15, 2017 7:28:27 GMT
hey, i like the new color scheme better.
|
|
|
Post by Argopeilacos on May 15, 2017 9:11:54 GMT
Just wondering, do you have a quick way to take these orthographic views?
|
|
|
Post by tukuro on May 15, 2017 9:22:49 GMT
Just wondering, do you have a quick way to take these orthographic views? Sadly not. I just take screenshots and then resize them. This would be a great suggestion though.
|
|
|
Post by goduranus on May 15, 2017 10:35:35 GMT
2Mc won't cut it on that ship, it needs about 5 minutes of decoys or it'll get ripped up by missiles. 5 minutes of 100MW decoys costs something like 400kC.
|
|
|
Post by tukuro on May 15, 2017 16:15:37 GMT
2Mc won't cut it on that ship, it needs about 5 minutes of decoys or it'll get ripped up by missiles. 5 minutes of 100MW decoys costs something like 400kC. It will. But warfare in CODE is more of Rock-Paper-Scissor kind of affair anyway. If ship A spends 400 kc on flares, ship B might spend an extra 400 kc on lasers or kinetics. A ship dedicated to missiles is going to beat a ship that's not dedicated to countering them. Same goes for shields and kinetics. Effective counters are possible, but you sort of need to go all in. The above ship focuses on high velocity kinetics and is armoured against high velocity kinetics. But lasers and missiles easily tear it apart. For this reason I suggest that we use armament and counter-specific categories. - Kinetic VS Missiles
- Kinetic VS Lasers
- Lasers VS Missiles
- Missiles VS Missiles
- Kinetic VS Missiles
- Lasers VS Lasers
- Universal/Combined FFA
|
|
|
Post by shiolle on May 15, 2017 18:34:09 GMT
A lot has been said about design limitations for the tournament, so I will try to add some ideas about organisation: - Double elimination format, because it is relatively straight forward and provides more opportunities for each fleet to test its mettle than single elimination tournament.
- All fleets are piloted by AI with zero input from the player. Participants can select an AI behavior for their fleet among the existing ones or mod their own.
- Since AI does not always act consistently, to win against an opponent a fleet must win two rounds out of three where fleets alternate between sides (red/green). In the third round, if it is needed, the sides are determined randomly.
- Designs and fleet compositions are submitted to the organizer(s) secretly during a clearly specified period. Each contestant can change his or her designs as many times as they like during that period. After the period ends, all designs are finalized and the fleets are in the hands of the organizer(s). Designs are not published until the first fight this fleet participates.
|
|
|
Post by Enderminion on May 15, 2017 18:52:16 GMT
Double Elimination or Round Robin is best because sometimes ships/fleets sometimes get hard countered early on and don't get to show their true colours
|
|
|
Post by batflag on May 15, 2017 20:32:30 GMT
In the interest of moving things forward, I picked the rules below based on the discussions so far. I've made some choices where there is disagreement, so if someone has a strong feeling we can keep discussing. I'm still not sure about the AI.txt. I'd hate to lose nose forward orientation.
1. 200 missiles or drones allowed, per side of engagement (400 total)
2. No limit to kinetic weapon rate of fire
3. No modified materials (at least for the initial tournament)
4. No modified limits.txt (at least for the initial tournament)
5. All material combinations allowable by the stock game are allowed (at least for the initial tournament)
6. 5 km/sec minimum delta-v
7. No use of turrets firing through armor glitch (or other exploits that are clearly violating physics)
8. Any hazardous crew conditions allowed by the game are allowed in the tournament
9. TO BE DECIDED: Custom AI is / is not allowed by editing the AI.txt and including with the UserDesigns.txt file
10. Fleet limits of 1.0 kt and 2 Mc
The mass seems low to me, but for the sake of agreeing on a number I'm happy with it.
|
|
|
Post by randommechanicumguy on May 15, 2017 21:04:07 GMT
In the interest of moving things forward, I picked the rules below based on the discussions so far. I've made some choices where there is disagreement, so if someone has a strong feeling we can keep discussing. I'm still not sure about the AI.txt. I'd hate to lose nose forward orientation. 1. 200 missiles or drones allowed, per side of engagement (400 total) 2. No limit to kinetic weapon rate of fire 3. No modified materials (at least for the initial tournament) 4. No modified limits.txt (at least for the initial tournament) 5. All material combinations allowable by the stock game are allowed (at least for the initial tournament) 6. 5 km/sec minimum delta-v 7. No use of turrets firing through armor glitch (or other exploits that are clearly violating physics) 8. Any hazardous crew conditions allowed by the game are allowed in the tournament 9. TO BE DECIDED: Custom AI is / is not allowed by editing the AI.txt and including with the UserDesigns.txt file 10. Fleet limits of 1.0 kt and 2 Mc The mass seems low to me, but for the sake of agreeing on a number I'm happy with it. this sounds like a good set of rules though I only think we'll be getting a single ship+mabe a drone fleet with those limits, I just think we could have a more deep metagame with slightly higher limits. However I think the rules will be good for now
|
|
|
Post by tukuro on May 15, 2017 21:23:54 GMT
1. 200 missiles or drones allowed, per side of engagement (400 total) I think that could be increased to 800 total (between both sides). It's going to tank performance, but otherwise its still within bounds. Perhaps even more if only one side is using missiles.
|
|