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Post by apophys on May 16, 2017 3:07:18 GMT
The material-cost relationship baffles me (Gasping for Fumes states that it's largely based on solar abundance and ease of extraction, but neither of those would explain how hydrogen is more expensive than hydrogen deuteride or helium, and certainly not how it's more expensive than xenon; similarly, how is neon cheaper than ubiquitous water?) [...] The "cheap" 100 crew compartment is the same as for the last one; it's called that because I experimented with changing it to magnesium, cutting out much mass and a bit of the cost, but I figured titanium is stronger and hence safer, plus a more conventional material in the spirit of my self-imposed challenge: Hydrogen is special in that it leaks right through the walls of any container meant to hold it (H 2 molecules are just that small). So the cost has to be adjusted for losses. (Qswitched explained this a while ago, because it was weird to many people.) Neon is probably so cheap because of the gas giants. So that one might be a bit detached from reality. Cost is unfortunately still very opaque. 1 cm polyethylene crew modules ftw. Very conventional, and strength is not too important when the armor shell is intended to be the main load-bearing structure. Though I wish CoaDE modeled structural stresses on ships...
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Post by samchiu2000 on May 16, 2017 23:22:42 GMT
Maybe you should redesign your ships The Astronomer , since the density of graphene had corrected from 230 kg/m^3 to 2300 kg/m^3, or ten times more heavier...
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Post by Pttg on May 17, 2017 1:09:07 GMT
Maybe you should redesign your ships The Astronomer , since the density of graphene had corrected from 230 kg/m^3 to 2300 kg/m^3, or ten times more heavier... Well, it was fun while it lasted.
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Post by deskjetser on May 17, 2017 17:07:26 GMT
This time I spent more than 5 minutes cobbling something together, with larger safety margins and dimensions for good measure. The Tower of Babel.62,330 Passengers to LEO @ 29,040¢ a seat, including 4kt of cargo. Also, Pttg my last submission carries 2kt of cargo, but you only marked it as 1kt;
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Post by darthroach on May 17, 2017 19:39:25 GMT
I wonder how structural mass is computed. Because this thing is going to need a ton of structural mass.
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Post by deskjetser on May 17, 2017 20:28:56 GMT
darthroach AFAIK the structural bracing visible in the editor isn't yet computed in the final mass and cost.
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Post by darthroach on May 17, 2017 20:35:47 GMT
darthroach AFAIK the structural bracing visible in the editor isn't yet computed in the final mass and cost. I figured, since your ship isn't built like a skyscraper. I assume that since most ships constructed in 0g will never be exposed to more than a few dozen miligees at most, qswitched didn't figure it would be worth including. Well, when you're talking about a mile tall ship constructed in a full g, supposed to handle actual liftoff, the loading becomes quite a bit more substantial.
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Post by nerd1000 on May 18, 2017 1:48:29 GMT
This time I spent more than 5 minutes cobbling something together, with larger safety margins and dimensions for good measure. The Tower of Babel.62,330 Passengers to LEO @ 29,040¢ a seat, including 4kt of cargo. Also, Pttg my last submission carries 2kt of cargo, but you only marked it as 1kt; Dammit, I've been usurped! *shakes fist*
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Post by deskjetser on May 20, 2017 15:55:53 GMT
Dammit, I've been usurped! *shakes fist* We both win for having the biggest deathtraps!
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Post by AdmiralObvious on May 21, 2017 0:07:38 GMT
Dammit, I've been usurped! *shakes fist* We both win for having the biggest deathtraps! I thought I held that honour, with the plastic 3mm thick shell, and the 2 G acceleration.
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Post by Dhan on May 25, 2017 22:21:25 GMT
has my ship been added? 60G accel dry and 4 wet Is that an escape ship for criminals? The challenge just states we need to get passengers to orbit. It doesn't say anything about the passengers needing to be alive once they get there.
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Post by Enderminion on May 25, 2017 22:35:43 GMT
Is that an escape ship for criminals? The challenge just states we need to get passengers to orbit. It doesn't say anything about the passengers needing to be alive once they get there. loved ones identification, only $999.99 (provide you're own paste)
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Post by cipherpunks on Jun 23, 2020 16:49:09 GMT
Revised submission: The light one is an improvement on my first submission, with fewer components, a heavier NTR and cost-optimized (i.e. boron everywhere!): It fits 202 passengers and 38 crew for 8.18 M¢ (34,083 ¢/seat), with 200t of cargo (40,900 ¢/t). Resurrected this one just to see how things changed from uber-Boron times. Ended up fixing its problems and streamlining it. Added 1 engine out capability. Changed some materials to no-nonsense (except 6Li radsheids, but that can be easily remedied with neutron reflector - doesn't change much tbh) & practically removed reactor cheat ( but added reactor cooling cheat just for giggles). Might be that it uses some edited limit here or there, but I guess nothing important/noteworthy.CrewModule 80 Crew Module 27 MgAlZn UsesCustomName true CrewCapacity 80 Decks 27 StructureMaterial Magnesium Aluminum Zinc ShellThickness_m 0.00082
RadiatorModule GTFO 0.46x1.7 Tapered AC Radiator UsesCustomName true Composition Amorphous Carbon PanelWidth_m 0.46 Height_m 0.01 Thickness_m 0.005 ArmorThickness_m 0.002 Panels 1 FrontTaper_radians 1.309 BackTaper_radians 0 SurfaceFinish Diamond
RadiationShieldModule GTFO 1 m Diameter 3 mm Lithium-6 Radiation Shield UsesCustomName true Composition Lithium-6 Dimensions_m 0.5 0.003
PropellantTankModule GTFO 1.7 kt Methane Tank VCS UsesCustomName true Propellant Methane StructureComposition Vanadium Chromium Steel ReactionMass_kg 1.7e+06 HeightToRadiusRatio 11.74 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
PropellantTankModule GTFO 10.0 t Methane Tank VCS UsesCustomName true Propellant Methane StructureComposition Vanadium Chromium Steel ReactionMass_kg 10000 HeightToRadiusRatio 11 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
RadiatorModule GTFO 17x3 m Radiator Fin AC UsesCustomName true Composition Amorphous Carbon PanelWidth_m 3 Height_m 6 Thickness_m 0.002 ArmorThickness_m 0.002 Panels 1 FrontTaper_radians 1.309 BackTaper_radians 0 SurfaceFinish Diamond
PropellantTankModule GTFO 2.5 t Methane Tank VCS UsesCustomName true Propellant Methane StructureComposition Vanadium Chromium Steel ReactionMass_kg 2500 HeightToRadiusRatio 3 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
CargoModule GTFO 200 t Cargo Bay Al UsesCustomName true Mass_kg 2e+05 AspectRatio 0.4 Shell Aluminum
PropellantTankModule GTFO 240 t Methane Tank VCS UsesCustomName true Propellant Methane StructureComposition Vanadium Chromium Steel ReactionMass_kg 2.4e+05 HeightToRadiusRatio 6.7 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
PropellantTankModule GTFO 600 t Methane Drop Tank VCS UsesCustomName true Propellant Methane StructureComposition Vanadium Chromium Steel ReactionMass_kg 6e+05 HeightToRadiusRatio 24 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0 External ExplosiveBoltMass_kg 0.2 ExplosiveBoltComposition Nitrocellulose
ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule GTFO 66.1 kW_e 0.12x0.8 m 329 kW_t 1600 K Reactor UsesCustomName true ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.11 0.12 NuclearReactor Coolant Hydrogen Moderator Diamond ModeratorMass_kg 5 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 0.26 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.31 ControlRodComposition Boron Carbide ControlRodMass_kg 0.03 NeutronReflector Diamond ReflectorThickness_m 0.01 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 1.21e+18 InnerTurbopump Composition Amorphous Carbon PumpRadius_m 0.119 RotationalSpeed_RPM 1040 ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 0.119 0.276 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Tungsten NTypeComposition Tantalum Length_m 0.001 ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 1600 OuterCoolant Hydrogen OuterTurbopump Composition Gamma Titanium Aluminide PumpRadius_m 0.119 RotationalSpeed_RPM 1040
RadiationShieldModule GTFO 8.00 m Diameter 5 mm Lithium-6 Radiation Shield UsesCustomName true Composition Lithium-6 Dimensions_m 4 0.005
PropellantTankModule GTFO 833 kg Methane Tank VCS UsesCustomName true Propellant Methane StructureComposition Vanadium Chromium Steel ReactionMass_kg 833 HeightToRadiusRatio 4 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
NuclearThermalRocketModule GTFO NTR-M-5.89-1150-U233 (Unshielded, 101 kPa) Description 5.1 cm Reflector = 1000 W UsesCustomName true ReactorCoreHeight_m 0.69 NuclearReactor Coolant Methane Moderator Diamond ModeratorMass_kg 0 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 27 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.97 ControlRodComposition Boron Nitride ControlRodMass_kg 6.9 NeutronReflector Diamond ReflectorThickness_m 0 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 1.464e+20 ThermalRocket ChamberComposition Diamond ThroatRadius_m 0.27 ChamberWallThickness_m 0.0059 ChamberContractionRatio 4.4 NozzleExpansionRatio 4.88 NozzleExpansionAngle_degrees 5.3 RegenerativeCooling_Percent 0 Injector Composition Magnesium PumpRadius_m 0.52 RotationalSpeed_RPM 399 Gimbal InnerRadius_m 0.74 ArmorComposition Silicon Nitride ArmorThickness_m 0.0001 AttachmentCount 1 MomentumWheels Composition Amorphous Zirconium Steel RotationalSpeed_RPM 12800 GimbalAngle_degrees 7.5
CraftBlueprint GTFO Light 240+200t Modules GTFO NTR-M-5.89-1150-U233 (Unshielded, 101 kPa) 7 0 null 0 0 80 Crew Module 27 MgAlZn 3 20.974 null 0 0 GTFO 200 t Cargo Bay Al 1 21.22 null 0 0 GTFO 66.1 kW_e 0.12x0.8 m 329 kW_t 1600 K Reactor 1 100.07 null 0 0 GTFO 1 m Diameter 3 mm Lithium-6 Radiation Shield 1 94.33 null 0 0 1.50 m x 0 m Spacer 1 111.56 null 0 0 GTFO 1.7 kt Methane Tank VCS 1 15.48 null 0 0 GTFO 240 t Methane Tank VCS 1 21.466 null 0 0 GTFO 600 t Methane Drop Tank VCS 3 38.607 null 0 0 GTFO 0.46x1.7 Tapered AC Radiator 2 169.48 GTFO 66.1 kW_e 0.12x0.8 m 329 kW_t 1600 K Reactor 1.5708 0 GTFO 17x3 m Radiator Fin AC 3 19.74 80 Crew Module 27 MgAlZn 1.0472 0 GTFO 8.00 m Diameter 5 mm Lithium-6 Radiation Shield 1 7.24 null 0 0 GTFO 10.0 t Methane Tank VCS 1 88.587 null 0 0 GTFO 2.5 t Methane Tank VCS 6 159.11 null 0 1 GTFO 10.0 t Methane Tank VCS 13 138.54 null 0 3 GTFO 833 kg Methane Tank VCS 6 162.62 null 0 2 Armor Shape Cylindrical Concave false ArmorLayers Titanium 0.001 0 0.033 1 1 0 Amorphous Carbon 0.001 0 0 1 1 0
200+40 ppl & 200 t cargo to LEO for almost the same price (35,625 ¢/{seat+~ton}) as uber-Boron one back then. This same concept can do slightly better by reducing cargo to 120 t (that's plenty anyway) and switching from VCS to Titanium tanks: CrewModule 79 Crew Module 27 MgAlZn UsesCustomName true CrewCapacity 79 Decks 27 StructureMaterial Magnesium Aluminum Zinc ShellThickness_m 0.00081
RadiatorModule GTFO 0.46x1.7 Tapered AC Radiator UsesCustomName true Composition Amorphous Carbon PanelWidth_m 0.46 Height_m 0.01 Thickness_m 0.005 ArmorThickness_m 0.002 Panels 1 FrontTaper_radians 1.309 BackTaper_radians 0 SurfaceFinish Diamond
RadiationShieldModule GTFO 1 m Diameter 3 mm Lithium-6 Radiation Shield UsesCustomName true Composition Lithium-6 Dimensions_m 0.5 0.003
PropellantTankModule GTFO 1.66 kt Methane Tank Ti UsesCustomName true Propellant Methane StructureComposition Titanium ReactionMass_kg 1.666e+06 HeightToRadiusRatio 12 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
PropellantTankModule GTFO 10.0 t Methane Tank Ti UsesCustomName true Propellant Methane StructureComposition Titanium ReactionMass_kg 10000 HeightToRadiusRatio 12 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
CargoModule GTFO 120 t Cargo Bay Al Description 0.240 = 4.77 => 10.5 UsesCustomName true Mass_kg 1.2e+05 AspectRatio 0.244 Shell Aluminum
RadiatorModule GTFO 17x3 m Radiator Fin AC UsesCustomName true Composition Amorphous Carbon PanelWidth_m 3 Height_m 6 Thickness_m 0.002 ArmorThickness_m 0.002 Panels 1 FrontTaper_radians 1.309 BackTaper_radians 0 SurfaceFinish Diamond
PropellantTankModule GTFO 2.5 t Methane Tank Ti UsesCustomName true Propellant Methane StructureComposition Titanium ReactionMass_kg 2500 HeightToRadiusRatio 3.04 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
PropellantTankModule GTFO 240 t Methane Tank Ti UsesCustomName true Propellant Methane StructureComposition Titanium ReactionMass_kg 2.4e+05 HeightToRadiusRatio 6.8 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
PropellantTankModule GTFO 600 t Methane Drop Tank Ti UsesCustomName true Propellant Methane StructureComposition Titanium ReactionMass_kg 6e+05 HeightToRadiusRatio 20 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0 External ExplosiveBoltMass_kg 0.8 ExplosiveBoltComposition Nitrocellulose
ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule GTFO 66.1 kW_e 0.12x0.8 m 329 kW_t 1600 K Reactor UsesCustomName true ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.11 0.12 NuclearReactor Coolant Hydrogen Moderator Diamond ModeratorMass_kg 5 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 0.26 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.31 ControlRodComposition Boron Carbide ControlRodMass_kg 0.03 NeutronReflector Diamond ReflectorThickness_m 0.01 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 1.21e+18 InnerTurbopump Composition Amorphous Carbon PumpRadius_m 0.119 RotationalSpeed_RPM 1040 ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 0.119 0.276 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Tungsten NTypeComposition Tantalum Length_m 0.001 ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 1600 OuterCoolant Hydrogen OuterTurbopump Composition Gamma Titanium Aluminide PumpRadius_m 0.119 RotationalSpeed_RPM 1040
RadiationShieldModule GTFO 8.00 m Diameter 5 mm Lithium-6 Radiation Shield UsesCustomName true Composition Lithium-6 Dimensions_m 4 0.005
PropellantTankModule GTFO 833 kg Methane Tank Ti UsesCustomName true Propellant Methane StructureComposition Titanium ReactionMass_kg 833 HeightToRadiusRatio 4.04 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
NuclearThermalRocketModule GTFO NTR-M-5.89-1000-U233 (Unshielded, 101 kPa) Description UsesCustomName true ReactorCoreHeight_m 0.59 NuclearReactor Coolant Methane Moderator Diamond ModeratorMass_kg 0 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 23.6 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.97 ControlRodComposition Boron Nitride ControlRodMass_kg 6.7 NeutronReflector Diamond ReflectorThickness_m 0 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 1.46e+20 ThermalRocket ChamberComposition Diamond ThroatRadius_m 0.27 ChamberWallThickness_m 0.0059 ChamberContractionRatio 4.4 NozzleExpansionRatio 4.88 NozzleExpansionAngle_degrees 5 RegenerativeCooling_Percent 0 Injector Composition Magnesium PumpRadius_m 0.52 RotationalSpeed_RPM 348 Gimbal InnerRadius_m 0.74 ArmorComposition Silicon Nitride ArmorThickness_m 0.0001 AttachmentCount 1 MomentumWheels Composition Amorphous Zirconium Steel RotationalSpeed_RPM 12800 GimbalAngle_degrees 7.5
CraftBlueprint GTFO Lighter 237+120t Modules GTFO NTR-M-5.89-1000-U233 (Unshielded, 101 kPa) 7 0 null 0 0 79 Crew Module 27 MgAlZn 3 20.974 null 0 0 GTFO 120 t Cargo Bay Al 1 21.22 null 0 0 GTFO 66.1 kW_e 0.12x0.8 m 329 kW_t 1600 K Reactor 1 100.07 null 0 0 GTFO 1 m Diameter 3 mm Lithium-6 Radiation Shield 1 94.33 null 0 0 1.50 m x 0 m Spacer 1 111.56 null 0 0 GTFO 1.66 kt Methane Tank Ti 1 15.48 null 0 0 GTFO 240 t Methane Tank Ti 1 21.466 null 0 0 GTFO 600 t Methane Drop Tank Ti 3 36.295 null 0 0 GTFO 0.46x1.7 Tapered AC Radiator 2 169.43 GTFO 66.1 kW_e 0.12x0.8 m 329 kW_t 1600 K Reactor 1.5708 0 GTFO 17x3 m Radiator Fin AC 3 19.74 79 Crew Module 27 MgAlZn 1.0472 0 GTFO 8.00 m Diameter 5 mm Lithium-6 Radiation Shield 1 7.24 null 0 0 GTFO 10.0 t Methane Tank Ti 1 88.587 null 0 0 GTFO 2.5 t Methane Tank Ti 6 158.08 null 0 2 GTFO 833 kg Methane Tank Ti 6 161.68 null 0 1 GTFO 10.0 t Methane Tank Ti 14 137.66 null 0 3 Armor Shape Cylindrical Concave false ArmorLayers Titanium 0.001 0 0.017 1 1 0 Amorphous Carbon 0.0005 0 0.843 1 1 0 Magnesium 0.0005 0 0.76 0.777 1 0 Magnesium 0.0005 0 0.4 0.41 1 0
237 ppl total & 120 t cargo to LEO for 34,008 ¢/{seat+0.5ton}
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Post by Argopeilacos on Jul 15, 2020 19:26:31 GMT
That takes me back…
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