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Post by samchiu2000 on Apr 30, 2017 2:57:59 GMT
I create this thread because i suddenly think that a 100kt CH maybe able to MELT a aircraft carrier from THOUSAND of miles away... Capital ship no more?
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Post by subunit on Apr 30, 2017 3:13:11 GMT
We'd be getting CHed all day by spacedust if the atmosphere would permit this kind of thing.
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Post by samchiu2000 on Apr 30, 2017 3:19:41 GMT
We'd be getting CHed all day by spacedust if the atmosphere would permit this kind of thing. You mean CH is completely useless in atmosphere?
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Post by subunit on Apr 30, 2017 3:32:33 GMT
We'd be getting CHed all day by spacedust if the atmosphere would permit this kind of thing. You mean CH is completely useless in atmosphere? Yeah. CH design uses a nuke to create fast-moving hot plasma in an environment (vacuum) where it can persist for some time as a cohesive plume. Plasma is dispersed quickly in atmosphere as the ions are constantly colliding with the gasses that make up the atmosphere, dumping their kinetic energy, reacting with them, being deflected in all manner of directions, etc. If you have a 100kt nuke and you want to kill a carrier, you need to get it within a few hundred meters of the carrier (mission kill maybe a km or two).
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Post by samchiu2000 on Apr 30, 2017 3:34:12 GMT
You mean CH is completely useless in atmosphere? Yeah. CH design uses a nuke to create fast-moving hot plasma in an environment (vacuum) where it can persist for some time as a cohesive plume. Plasma is dispersed quickly in atmosphere as the ions are constantly colliding with the gasses that make up the atmosphere, dumping their kinetic energy, reacting with them, being deflected in all manner of directions, etc. If you have a 100kt nuke and you want to kill a carrier, you need to get it within a few hundred meters of the carrier (mission kill maybe a km or two). Alright. And i don't know it because i am a noob in term of physic
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Post by subunit on Apr 30, 2017 3:35:50 GMT
Yeah. CH design uses a nuke to create fast-moving hot plasma in an environment (vacuum) where it can persist for some time as a cohesive plume. Plasma is dispersed quickly in atmosphere as the ions are constantly colliding with the gasses that make up the atmosphere, dumping their kinetic energy, reacting with them, being deflected in all manner of directions, etc. If you have a 100kt nuke and you want to kill a carrier, you need to get it within a few hundred meters of the carrier (mission kill maybe a km or two). Alright. And i don't know it because i am a noob in term of physic I'm pretty sure every single person here has been schooled in some aspect or other of physics or material science by this game
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Post by Enderminion on Apr 30, 2017 3:49:05 GMT
about 1km is the kill radi for 350K-ton nuclear weapons aganist modern naval vessels, shorter aganist older armoured ships. although a ~20kt bomb lifted the 26,000 ton USS Arkansas into the air from an underwater shot
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Post by zuthal on May 1, 2017 19:50:13 GMT
The thing is, cosmic rays are individual, very-near-c particles with low overall intensity - opposed to that, a casaba-howitzer's plasma beam is a relatively dense, cohesive plasma, with an average particle velocity from what I have read on the order of 1000 km/s. So, I think that with a casaba-howitzer, the density is high enough and the particle energy is low enough that you cannot, as the comparison to cosmic rays does, treat it just as a collection of individual particles flying in close formation, but have to apply fluid dynamics.
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Post by zorbeltuss on May 2, 2017 19:00:49 GMT
While I do agree that you will probably not have problems with the atmosphere, I don't think it is feasable in the least, lets say we want to concentrate the force on a 10 yard diameter from a thousand miles away, the spread then needs to be around a third of a millidegree or just above one arc second, while it may actually be possible to build a casaba howitzer with that kind of spread, the cost would be immense as a liner of 10 inches in diameter would need to be close to fifty thousand yards away, a bomb that big would probably be more expensive than a fleet of carriers, and you'd need a lot larger of a warhead for that. Calculations: Cone angle calculationsRadian to Degree and arc second conversionsLiner distance calculationA calculation for my benefit as I'm not as well versed in imperial measurements as some ^^On a much shorter distance it becomes much more feasible, but how effective that will be I don't know maybe will find out in a prequel game, "Our Parents are Killing Earth". ^^
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Post by Enderminion on May 2, 2017 19:12:20 GMT
its easier to use a G-ton H-bomb to create a wave then a C-howitzer
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Post by matterbeam on May 3, 2017 15:57:17 GMT
A Nuclear Explosive-Formed Penetrator is a Casaba Howitzer with a thick inverted cone of metal in front of it. The nuclear force, through the Monroe effect, is used to accelerate a metal plate of several tons to several kilometers per second.
It will be much faster than hypersonic missiles, impervious to point defenses and probably have to range to destroy targets over the horizon.
Aerodynamic heating is not a big problem when the metal is already half-molten. Drag can be compensated for through sheer momentum - the mass required to prevent the nuclear explosion from simply vaporizing the metal plate has a side effect of having the NEFP projectile mass several tons.
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Post by Enderminion on May 3, 2017 16:19:56 GMT
0.35kt nuclear ordnance can lift a 4000 ton battleship, use extremely small bombs matterbeam
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Post by matterbeam on May 3, 2017 17:21:19 GMT
0.35kt nuclear ordnance can lift a 4000 ton battleship, use extremely small bombs matterbeam Oh the nuclear charge itself can be small, its just necessary that the metal plate be very massive to absorb the energy.
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Post by Enderminion on May 3, 2017 18:19:57 GMT
yeah, a kiloton or two
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Post by subunit on May 3, 2017 20:01:26 GMT
A Nuclear Explosive-Formed Penetrator is a Casaba Howitzer with a thick inverted cone of metal in front of it. The nuclear force, through the Monroe effect, is used to accelerate a metal plate of several tons to several kilometers per second. It will be much faster than hypersonic missiles, impervious to point defenses and probably have to range to destroy targets over the horizon. Aerodynamic heating is not a big problem when the metal is already half-molten. Drag can be compensated for through sheer momentum - the mass required to prevent the nuclear explosion from simply vaporizing the metal plate has a side effect of having the NEFP projectile mass several tons. This is a better idea than a CH in atmosphere, but I'm skeptical of whether this sort of thing is really a viable naval weapon in the first place. OTH positional fixes are in practice not precise enough to direct a weapon like this- there are good reasons actual militaries prefer supersonic AShMs with terminal guidance to things like railguns, even if they are slightly more susceptible to CIWS fire. You also have no possibility of getting plunging hits and low/no possibility of below-waterline hits. If you're going nuclear in an earthbound confrontation you may as well just use a ballistic missile (also impervious to point defence) to deliver your nuclear material and frag the entire battlegroup instead of hoping to poke above-waterline holes in a few of them with EFPs.
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