|
Post by michalo on May 2, 2017 18:02:04 GMT
So there is my attempt to make a 'working at least from thermal standpoint' space sub, maybe it is not 85m long, but if you shift one axis, it is almost 2 km long It has no armor and only a symbolic thrust, and its missiles (also running on HD to avoid freezing) are kinda useless in combat scenario, but hey! It has enough radiators to not exceed 40 kelvin (however for some reason i couldn't make my rtg run that cold)
|
|
|
Post by Enderminion on May 2, 2017 18:26:19 GMT
So there is my attempt to make a 'working at least from thermal standpoint' space sub, maybe it is not 85m long, but if you shift one axis, it is almost 2 km long It has no armor and only a symbolic thrust, and its missiles (also running on HD to avoid freezing) are kinda useless in combat scenario, but hey! It has enough radiators to not exceed 40 kelvin (however for some reason i couldn't make my rtg run that cold) I can't see it, someone copy it off imagur
|
|
|
Post by Enderminion on May 2, 2017 23:46:52 GMT
carp since when was in conventional ordance only, also my internal cannons are 64.4cm and common (super) heavy torpedo tubes are 65cm bore, with a max of 30 inches.
|
|
|
Post by samchiu2000 on May 3, 2017 1:54:47 GMT
Behold! My hydrogen steamer! Code?
|
|
|
Post by The Astronomer on May 3, 2017 1:55:26 GMT
Behold! My hydrogen steamer! Code? 12345677789It's merely a really long stick, with its power generator running cold, and NTR rocket exhaust exit temp at 20 K.
|
|
|
Post by samchiu2000 on May 3, 2017 1:56:40 GMT
So there is my attempt to make a 'working at least from thermal standpoint' space sub, maybe it is not 85m long, but if you shift one axis, it is almost 2 km long It has no armor and only a symbolic thrust, and its missiles (also running on HD to avoid freezing) are kinda useless in combat scenario, but hey! It has enough radiators to not exceed 40 kelvin (however for some reason i couldn't make my rtg run that cold) 40k isn't enough. What about 22k, the boiling point of hydrogen?
|
|
|
Post by samchiu2000 on May 3, 2017 1:57:15 GMT
Code? 12345677789It's merely a really long stick, with its power generator running cold, and NTR rocket exhaust exit temp at 20 K. ...How cold? Just curious~
|
|
|
Post by The Astronomer on May 3, 2017 1:59:27 GMT
12345677789It's merely a really long stick, with its power generator running cold, and NTR rocket exhaust exit temp at 20 K. ...How cold? Just curious~ Currently it's very hot, at 500 K, but I don't think there's any purpose making it even colder, until the implementation of the real hydrogen steamer.
|
|
|
Post by samchiu2000 on May 3, 2017 2:00:39 GMT
...How cold? Just curious~ Currently it's very hot, at 500 K, but I don't think there's any purpose making it even colder. Can you bring it down to something like 20 k?~
|
|
|
Post by The Astronomer on May 3, 2017 2:02:06 GMT
Currently it's very hot, at 500 K, but I don't think there's any purpose making it even colder. Can you bring it down to something like 20 k?~ NO!
|
|
|
Post by michalo on May 3, 2017 8:28:36 GMT
40k isn't enough. What about 22k, the boiling point of hydrogen? That would require quadrupling amount of radiators. The main limiting factor is heat generated by crew - I don't know why this ship requires so many people (I suspect it would work fine with 4 people or less, because this ship has probably less than 100 moving parts, one guy can check them every HOUR or faster if he is fast), and what is the job of 9 REACTOR TECHNICIANS? What civilization can make so bad RTGs that they need 9 people to keep them working? With that logic, Curiosity Rover on Mars probably has full battleship crew with 100 Bearing Ball Technicians, 36 Drill Technicians and 12 Wheel Technicians, not mentioning their 20 Logistics Officers (because maybe there will be some outpost on Mars where we can buy extra food or fuel, which we have perfectly enough for our mission, and we need to be perfectly sure that we don't need more), 12 Comms Officers, 4 Backside Of Antenna Officers, 12 Ground Navigation Officers, and 25 Cooks, because no one onboard can open bags with ready to eat food rations.
|
|
|
Post by The Astronomer on May 3, 2017 8:37:51 GMT
40k isn't enough. What about 22k, the boiling point of hydrogen? That would require quadrupling amount of radiators. The main limiting factor is heat generated by crew - I don't know why this ship requires so many people (I suspect it would work fine with 4 people or less, because this ship has probably less than 100 moving parts, one guy can check them every HOUR or faster if he is fast), and what is the job of 9 REACTOR TECHNICIANS? What civilization can make so bad RTGs that they need 9 people to keep them working? With that logic, Curiosity Rover on Mars probably has full battleship crew with 100 Bearing Ball Technicians, 36 Drill Technicians and 12 Wheel Technicians, not mentioning their 20 Logistics Officers (because maybe there will be some outpost on Mars where we can buy extra food or fuel, which we have perfectly enough for our mission, and we need to be perfectly sure that we don't need more), 12 Comms Officers, 4 Backside Of Antenna Officers, 12 Ground Navigation Officers, and 25 Cooks, because no one onboard can open bags with ready to eat food rations. The important thing is connection to the mission control. Without of which, you need to haul everyone with you in your spacecraft. Though, I do agree with you that the reactor technician number is way too high
|
|
|
Post by acrosome on May 3, 2017 9:54:34 GMT
Its only a difference of a "few" orders of magnitude more area to cover. And one HELL of a more forgiving environment for the penetrator. Air, and all. And ground clutter. And a horizon. And so on. But you totally missed the point, anyway. It wasn't meant to be a direct comparison. (Obviously, I had thought.) It was meant to point out that a system not being perfect does not ipso facto make it useless. Which would be absurd. Spitzer /Hubble space telescopes are not cheap. Because that is what you are asking for. Uh, say what?!? First, compared to the manned combat spacecraft that we're designing as well as all of the implied infrastructure, brother, Hubbles are dirt cheap! Second, no, you don't need Hubbles. A lens the size of an SLR's wide-angle could do a complete sky survey at the resolution we'd need in about 4 hours, and produce about a terabyte of data. And you could just scatter a dozen or so all over the system to defeat people trying to radiate the heat in an unobserved direction. Seriously- read what's behind that link in my first post. As I said, you can make an arguably "stealthy" (i.e. cold) vehicle, but it will be unmanned and slow. So you almost can't even call it a "ship", actually- it'd be better described as a drone or a missile bus.
|
|
|
Post by dwwolf on May 3, 2017 10:05:48 GMT
The logistical base is alot smaller. And the cost of living much higher.
Excess capacity is much lower.
|
|
|
Post by acrosome on May 3, 2017 10:10:15 GMT
The logistical base is alot smaller. And the cost of living much higher. Excess capacity is much lower. Yep, Nicoll's Law in action... The proposition that a space-faring nation, that is capable of what they are capable of in this game, cannot somehow afford to scatter a couple of dozen wide-angle IR cameras about the solar system is... absurd. It would be an obvious, inexpensive and vital early-warning capability, if nothing else. Not to mention, have you seen all of the city lights glowing on the major moons? There's an entire civilization up there! Brother, space is not the ocean. And space is not the atmosphere of planet Earth. There is no practical stealth in space. You can make a cold and slow unmanned missile, station, or drone. And even then it's going to be significantly hotter than the 3K background sky, just not quite as ridiculously so. That's it. And even that, frankly, would be most useful for emplacing this sensor constellation that I'm talking about. Or, rephrased: it would be a strategic-scale thing, not a tactical-scale thing. Now, I am going to stop engaging you until you at least acknowledge that you have read my link, so that you can at least try to come up with new arguments instead of having me recapitulate why all of the old ones won't work. Because this is an OLD debate that the dammit-I-want-my-stealth-ship people lost long ago. There's a ridiculous word-count there already, and you can go to rec.arts.sf.science to try to make your case. Good luck, and have a nice day.
|
|