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Post by psycho0222 on Apr 29, 2017 0:00:21 GMT
Just when I thought I can play factorio v15 for the next couple weeks....
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Post by Enderminion on Apr 29, 2017 1:28:22 GMT
Just when I thought I can play factorio v15 for the next couple weeks.... Freelancer and Sins of a Solar Empire Trinity, for me
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Post by lawson on Apr 29, 2017 3:27:04 GMT
In terms of distributed fire, my point defense ships will no longer be massive death lasers but cheap ships with millions of 1g railguns. MORE DAKA!
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Post by Enderminion on Apr 29, 2017 3:34:07 GMT
it looks pretty, now I need rapid fire weapons with Red White and BOOM! (blue) tracers...
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Post by Rocket Witch on Apr 29, 2017 3:59:06 GMT
Boron is now the only propellant tank material that matters VC Steel offers very good ratios and makes more sense in terms of manufacturing (afaik) and not being hypergolic with fluorine. Sure it's a third as good as boron in this regard, but boron's just ridiculous. Once you've got a mass ratio of about 100, increasing it further doesn't really mean anything in my experience. Diamond, amorphous carbon, and reinforced carbon-carbon are also fine. I'm quite dissatisfied with this change. There are Spectra/Dyneema formulations with strength even higher than original. Honeywell's own description of Spectra of it suggests it's a woven cloth. Imagine using a hardened polyester shirt to hold your rocket fuel. That said, it would be nice to do the SpaceX thing of having a metal tank wrapped in fiber. Where are you getting their strengths from? ?
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Post by subunit on Apr 29, 2017 4:52:28 GMT
I'm quite dissatisfied with this change. There are Spectra/Dyneema formulations with strength even higher than original. Honeywell's own description of Spectra of it suggests it's a woven cloth. Imagine using a hardened polyester shirt to hold your rocket fuel. Like, say, a fuel bladder? Works fine IRL:
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Post by Enderminion on Apr 29, 2017 4:56:49 GMT
the optics on that image are incrediable, it kinda looks like its relfected on water, across the bottom
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Post by argonbalt on Apr 29, 2017 5:13:57 GMT
the new UHMWPE now weaker. I'm quite dissatisfied with this change. There are Spectra/Dyneema formulations with strength even higher than original. I hate to say it, but this feels like another kneejerk response from Sempai~. He was too quick to a bow down to mouthbreathing retards this time. NAOP i have warned you about language (specifically mouth-breathing retards line), you will be banned for 1(one)day ending the 30th.
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Post by Rocket Witch on Apr 29, 2017 15:34:53 GMT
Like, say, a fuel bladder? Works fine IRL: The polymer fabric by itself is effectively porous even if the fibers themselves don't absorb water, due to the gaps between them, and therefore useless regardless of strength. These bladders are elastomer coated or impgregnated, and it seems typically have strengths of 50-200MPa. The only couple of things I've gotten specific properties for on MatWeb are made from ABS + nylon and don't look particularly impressive in game terms, though I may mod them in for interest when I post a big polymer dump. www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=09c6d8aaad51444f838a219bb88a6c0awww.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=225de9228732470dba61f96f0df4a369Some of these are sold with aramid reinforcement but I haven't found any value for their strength so far: www.atlinc.com/uavbladder.htmlGiven the thicknesses listed, these won't make aerospace tanks with mass ratios like 500, though they'll certainly be better than making tanks out of the ingame nitrile rubber. The process of making UHMWPE fiber nonporous will at best produce something resembling reinforced carbon-carbon, which is actually a little better for tanks than more rigid forms of carbon, but I haven't been able to find any examples of this so far. If anyone can find properties for aramid based or reinforced fuel bladder material I'll be happy to help put it into the game, and maybe one could produce some sort of nanoweave that leaks water as slowly as other materials leak hydrogen, but pure UHMWPE fiber as presented ingame won't work and never should've. I thought it might've represented some manner of pure polyethylene composite ( as alias72 points out in another thread) but the patch change suggests not.
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Post by subunit on Apr 29, 2017 15:55:59 GMT
pure UHMWPE fiber as presented ingame won't work and never should've We're still talking about the game that allows lithium water tanks, right? Surface/compatibility finishes/coatings are abstracted out, I'm not sure what makes UHMWPE different.
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Post by David367th on Apr 29, 2017 16:34:15 GMT
pure UHMWPE fiber as presented ingame won't work and never should've We're still talking about the game that allows lithium water tanks, right? Surface/compatibility finishes/coatings are abstracted out, I'm not sure what makes UHMWPE different. The high strength UHMWPE is not watertight so would allow for fuel to leak substantially. It's the same reason we can't use aramid fibers and aerogels as fuel tanks. However there is a non-porous UHM that is watertight but not as strong.
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Post by Rocket Witch on Apr 29, 2017 16:43:44 GMT
We're still talking about the game that allows lithium water tanks, right? Surface/compatibility finishes/coatings are abstracted out, I'm not sure what makes UHMWPE different. Chemical incompatibility simply isn't modelled due to the difficulty of encompassing every material, though I have started an effort toward cataloging these interactions which you are aware of. For the same reason of incomplete data, material weakning from elevated temperatures isn't a thing, otherwise some materials would have this information and others wouldn't, and the relevant differences in their properties wouldn't be consistent. Though you could give every material for which such data is unavailable an arbitrary placeholder value based on what kind of material it is, many materials picked for the game are highly specialised and used because of their exceptional properties which may be unusual for a metal or ceramic or whatever. On this basis I feel it is better to omit such a consideration than try to force it. Nor does every material have its own refractive index, nor do materials have a spectrum of other properties (density, conductivity, etc.) for different temperatures, nor do materials fatigue from repeated stresses, etc. There is a line somewhere where we either make concessions for this being a game based on finite knowledge, and match it up to given level of internal consistency, or don't make it at all. The game allows coatings for radiators, and composite gun barrels were only just implemented, so I would consider composite and lined propellant tanks to be awaiting implementation rather than abstracted away by design. That is, if we clamour for increased fuel system fidelity, I'm sure we'll see it added in. Porosity to fluids is implemented due to real materials literally being either porous or not in practical terms (correct me if I'm wrong), so it's a simple boolean switch ingame which red-flags the material's use in certain modules. Perhaps there's a reason Q took so long to change UHMWPE though.
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Post by subunit on Apr 29, 2017 17:19:47 GMT
Porosity to fluids is implemented due to real materials literally being either porous or not in practical terms (correct me if I'm wrong), so it's a simple boolean switch ingame which red-flags the material's use in certain modules. Perhaps there's a reason Q took so long to change UHMWPE though. Sorry, I wasn't following what "the new UHMWPE" meant closely enough. Your point is fair enough, and if bulk UHMWPE is still tank-friendly, it really doesn't matter that much. That said, as far as organic polymers go, if these things are being manufactured with some kind of atomic scale manufacturing technique, it may be trivial to just crosslink all your fibers 10 microns or whatever in from your interior surface when you're initially plating the tank out to begin with, depending on the fiber arrangement. If all the porous flag is doing is preventing you from using particular materials as fuel containers, it may not necessarily apply to all fibers.
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Post by The Astronomer on Apr 29, 2017 17:38:53 GMT
Why can't we make a UHMWPE fiber tank with inside coated with PTFE?
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Post by David367th on Apr 29, 2017 17:49:48 GMT
Porosity to fluids is implemented due to real materials literally being either porous or not in practical terms (correct me if I'm wrong), so it's a simple boolean switch ingame which red-flags the material's use in certain modules. Perhaps there's a reason Q took so long to change UHMWPE though. If all the porous flag is doing is preventing you from using particular materials as fuel containers, it may not necessarily apply to all fibers. Engines, barrels, radiators, crew modules, turbopumps, momentum wheels, and probably more are prevented from using porous/fibrous materials.
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