|
Post by SevenOfCarina on Apr 26, 2017 17:26:05 GMT
For the past month or so, I've been attempting to set up a near-future universe out of which I can base some science fiction as God and Heinlein intended. The problem is, I'm a bit of a perfectionist, and I absolutely cannot start writing till every semi-important detail has been settled. So, I was hoping you kind folk here at the CoaDE forums could assist me in this endeavour. What I need are people who think differently, and who can help me fully realise the implications of whatever technology that I introduce. Ideas are more than welcome. Details shall be forthcoming depending on just how much attention this attracts.
|
|
|
Post by The Astronomer on Apr 26, 2017 17:28:16 GMT
Any details about your universe? I'm also writing a hard sci-fi, too, so it shouldn't be hard for me to grasp.
|
|
|
Post by SevenOfCarina on Apr 26, 2017 17:45:03 GMT
It's set in an early to mid Interplanetary era civilization. No aliens, and no extensive colonization beyond Neptune. The total human population of Sol Sys is about 2.86 billion, with the most populous world being Luna. Earth is nearly frozen over, has huge amounts of dust and ash choking its atmosphere, and has been rendered tectonically unstable. Luna holds 1.2 billion, but is extremely fractured, with numerous large polities locked in a cold war. Mars holds 800 million, and is in the midst of a four way war between three different factions and anti-terraformation terrorists. Venus is paradise, a total democracy that is unwilling to accept outsiders. Mercury is a major raw material exporter and industrial world that has fallen into hard times. The belt is a warzone, with numerous pirate bands, pseudo-states, miniature empires and corporations all vying for control - the inner worlds are simply unwilling to invade. The Jovian system is in its late colonization phase, with fledgling states that have bonded together for protection. The Saturnian system is in its mid to late colonization phase, and is full of proxy wars between inner-planets backed factions that are vying for control over its volatiles, and rebel groups. The Uranian system and the Neptunian system both in their early colonization phase, and are still primarily controlled by corporations and the inner worlds. Interplanetary transport is mostly facilitated by a throttleable ICF D-D drive with a specific power of around 100kW/kg, and a maximum exhaust velocity of around 2500km/s, similar to the Hyde Fusion spacecraft on Atomic Rockets.
|
|
|
Post by newageofpower on Apr 26, 2017 19:02:11 GMT
Surprised the Jovian system isn't a self-contained superpower. It has ludicrous amounts of free energy via Jupiter Dynamo, the largest moons hold vast amounts of varied resources, one of the largest sources of water in the Solar System - Europa, which is more life-friendly than any other colony site bar Venus.
Venus is difficult to extract resources from, though it's the easiest place to support human life on. It does have higher solar energy density than the Earth orbit.
Mars cannot be completely terraformed to Earth standard; it's lower gravity and lack of a magnetosphere means that atmospheric erosion significantly exceeds replenishment. If you were to put oceans on Mars, most of them would boil off before a millenia has passed; it's not quite far enough from the sun.
What is the manufacturing tech in your universe? CoADE-style molecular printing? Conventional machining? Industrial Nanorobotics?
|
|
|
Post by bigbombr on Apr 26, 2017 19:22:47 GMT
I'd imagine Mercury to be very low in population. Mining can be very heavily automated and there are few volatiles (like water, or carbon dioxide) necessary for life. They'd have to import water, and potentially nitrogen, carbon and fosfor. They'd probably have massive mass drivers and solar sailers though. Due to their close position to the sun, the lack of water, and plenty of minerals I'd expect them to be much further along the path of cyberdization than other populations. AI's might be cornerstones of their civilization. They would presumably defend themselves with a well-developed laser weapon web and mass driver array. They have, after all, energy and metal ton spare. Due to how deep they are in the Sun's gravity well and their low population, they might be disinclined towards imperialism.
Venus would probably be home to many (hundreds, perhaps thousands) of floating city states suspended in the Venusian atmosphere. They have little to import or export (though they might be short on metals, but carbon allotropes can suffice for many applications). The deep gravity well and thick atmosphere would make traffic to other celestial bodies difficult. This combined with their many city-states (possibly in constant conflict like the Greek city-states and Italian city-states of the past) might indeed lead to an isolationist (possibly xenophobic) attitude. They'd probably have little orbital weaponry because of the expense and their lack of unity. I expect their favored weapons to be missiles tipped with nukes or cassaba howitzers, as these are potent weapons that wouldn't suffer from the thick atmosphere as much as lasers or mass drivers.
Not sure what happened to Earth, but I'd expect to find plenty of humans there, though their population might be heavily diminished when compared with before whatever cataclysm befell it. They'd have a versatile weaponry. Being the cradle of mankind might make them imperialistic, but they presumably have no longer the strengt to compete with newer super powers.
|
|
|
Post by bigbombr on Apr 26, 2017 19:41:29 GMT
The Moon would probably have plenty of mass drivers and a well-developed laser weapon web too, though not necessarily one much bigger than that of Mercury (a higher population to support those systems and a greater need to defend themselves is balanced out by their lower access to metals and energy, and the reduced need for obscenely high volume off-world shipping when compared to Mercury).
On Mars, I'd expect at least one of the factions on the north pole and one on the south pole. This is where the majority of the water and nitrogen is located. Terraforming Mars is impractical, and it would consume vast amounts of resources better spent elsewhere. One faction might control Phobos, and another Deimos.
I'd expect at least some interplanetary transport done through solar sail: Mercury can launch payloads to other celestial bodies but probably uses solarsails (either magsails or fotonsails, the latter of which can be used as lasersail) for course correction and use MPDT's or ablative laser thermal rockets utilizing metals as propellant for orbital insertion at the destination and return flight. There is little of the traditional rocket propellants present at Mercury after all.
Piracy might be uneconomical when compared to mining in the belt because 1) no stealth in space and 2) vast distances between the belt objects mean you can't sneak close. And weaponizing mass drivers, mining lasers and various drones used for mining seems trivial. Controlling the belt seems to be a matter of how willing you are to shoot yourself in the foot in order to gain dominance. Imagine where every industrial tool is a potential weapon, the industry and natural resources are the point of the conquest and no-one likes to be bossed around. It would be worse than Afghanistan, if the Taliban and the various warlords had nukes and their own aircraft.
|
|
|
Post by SevenOfCarina on Apr 26, 2017 19:43:38 GMT
Surprised the Jovian system isn't a self-contained superpower. It has ludicrous amounts of free energy via Jupiter Dynamo, the largest moons hold vast amounts of varied resources, one of the largest sources of water in the Solar System - Europa, which is more life-friendly than any other colony site bar Venus. Venus is difficult to extract resources from, though it's the easiest place to support human life on. It does have higher solar energy density than the Earth orbit. Mars cannot be completely terraformed to Earth standard; it's lower gravity and lack of a magnetosphere means that atmospheric erosion significantly exceeds replenishment. If you were to put oceans on Mars, most of them would boil off before a millenia has passed; it's not quite far enough from the sun. What is the manufacturing tech in your universe? CoADE-style molecular printing? Conventional machining? Industrial Nanorobotics? The Jovian moons are, like I stated earlier, still in the late colonization phase. The fact that they have the resources of the Jovian system is the one of the few things stopping the inner worlds from simply crushing them. Also, Europa will likely end up quarantined, to 'protect' whatever life that may or may not exist there. Venus has strong trade relations with Mercury for this very reason. It hasn't been terraformed yet. I'm not going to explain the Martian boondoggle, but Mars in its very, very early terraformation stage. Constant warfare has done more to thicken the atmosphere than any terraformation installations till date. The terrorists are not helping. As for the sustenance of Earth-like conditions? That is a plot hole that needs fixing. Frankly, this is where I need help. I'm imagining CoaDE style molecular printing being the dominant production method, but most 'large' manufactured goods needing to be assembled conventionally. There will probably be none of the CoaDE '3D print entire warships' attitude. Most industrial 3D printers will be highly specialised for individual tasks, and more versatile household 3D printers will be very limited in terms of size, materials and complexity.
|
|
|
Post by bigbombr on Apr 26, 2017 19:50:58 GMT
Surprised the Jovian system isn't a self-contained superpower. It has ludicrous amounts of free energy via Jupiter Dynamo, the largest moons hold vast amounts of varied resources, one of the largest sources of water in the Solar System - Europa, which is more life-friendly than any other colony site bar Venus. Venus is difficult to extract resources from, though it's the easiest place to support human life on. It does have higher solar energy density than the Earth orbit. Mars cannot be completely terraformed to Earth standard; it's lower gravity and lack of a magnetosphere means that atmospheric erosion significantly exceeds replenishment. If you were to put oceans on Mars, most of them would boil off before a millenia has passed; it's not quite far enough from the sun. What is the manufacturing tech in your universe? CoADE-style molecular printing? Conventional machining? Industrial Nanorobotics? The Jovian moons are, like I stated earlier, still in the late colonization phase. The fact that they have the resources of the Jovian system is the one of the few things stopping the inner worlds from simply crushing them. Also, Europa will likely end up quarantined, to 'protect' whatever life that may or may not exist there. Venus has strong trade relations with Mercury for this very reason. It hasn't been terraformed yet. I'm not going to explain the Martian boondoggle, but Mars in its very, very early terraformation stage. Constant warfare has done more to thicken the atmosphere than any terraformation installations till date. The terrorists are not helping. As for the sustenance of Earth-like conditions? That is a plot hole that needs fixing. Frankly, this is where I need help. I'm imagining CoaDE style molecular printing being the dominant production method, but most 'large' manufactured goods needing to be assembled conventionally. There will probably be none of the CoaDE '3D print entire warships' attitude. Most industrial 3D printers will be highly specialised for individual tasks, and more versatile household 3D printers will be very limited in terms of size, materials and complexity. Mercury can offer Venus metals. But what can Venus offer Mercury? Carrying water or carbon dioxide through the atmosphere and out of the gravity well seems harder than just getting the stuff from the belt or the outer planets. And does Venus even have the capabilities for interplanetary trade on the scale of Mercury? Mercury just has to fire payloads out of mass drivers. Venus has to use rockets, and like I stated in a previous post, is probably highly balkanized due the practicalities of Venusian colonies. Are graphene and similar easily mass produced? If no, than that drastically lowers performance of every faction, but especially Venusian colonies would grow slower.
|
|
|
Post by SevenOfCarina on Apr 26, 2017 19:54:34 GMT
The Moon would probably have plenty of mass drivers and a well-developed laser weapon web too, though not necessarily one much bigger than that of Mercury (a higher population to support those systems and a greater need to defend themselves is balanced out by their lower access to metals and energy, and the reduced need for obscenely high volume off-world shipping when compared to Mercury). On Mars, I'd expect at least one of the factions on the north pole and one on the south pole. This is where the majority of the water and nitrogen is located. Terraforming Mars is impractical, and it would consume vast amounts of resources better spent elsewhere. One faction might control Phobos, and another Deimos. I'd expect at least some interplanetary transport done through solar sail: Mercury can launch payloads to other celestial bodies but probably uses solarsails (either magsails or fotonsails, the latter of which can be used as lasersail) for course correction and use MPDT's or ablative laser thermal rockets utilizing metals as propellant for orbital insertion at the destination and return flight. There is little of the traditional rocket propellants present at Mercury after all. Piracy might be uneconomical when compared to mining in the belt because 1) no stealth in space and 2) vast distances between the belt objects mean you can't sneak close. And weaponizing mass drivers, mining lasers and various drones used for mining seems trivial. Controlling the belt seems to be a matter of how willing you are to shoot yourself in the foot in order to gain dominance. Imagine where every industrial tool is a potential weapon, the industry and natural resources are the point of the conquest and no-one likes to be bossed around. It would be worse than Afghanistan, if the Taliban and the various warlords had nukes and their own aircraft. All good points. Martian orbit is off-limits to discourage rods from god. Phobos and Deimos are effectively neutral space, enforced by the threat of the fifth faction joining the war. (?) The vast resource cost is one reason for the proxy wars on Titan et all. Also, MPDTs are a bit tame when you have ICF rockets, no? Mercury's laser launch systems are hung up in legal issues. They are pirates in name only. It isn't commerce raiding so much as it is preventing the other person's shipment from reaching its destination so that you can jack up prices. Just because everbody can see what you're doing doesn't mean they're willing and capable of stopping you. The inner worlds are, to an extent, being effectively held at ransom by the Belt. But there's a very good reason no one tries to bring law to the belt
|
|
|
Post by SevenOfCarina on Apr 26, 2017 20:02:47 GMT
Mercury can offer Venus metals. But what can Venus offer Mercury? Carrying water or carbon dioxide through the atmosphere and out of the gravity well seems harder than just getting the stuff from the belt or the outer planets. And does Venus even have the capabilities for interplanetary trade on the scale of Mercury? Mercury just has to fire payloads out of mass drivers. Venus has to use rockets, and like I stated in a previous post, is probably highly balkanized due the practicalities of Venusian colonies. Are graphene and similar easily mass produced? If no, than that drastically lowers performance of every faction, but especially Venusian colonies would grow slower. Would it be possible to establish conditions such that Mercury was a boom town that went bust? Venus offers services. IT. R&D. And a very large fraction of the interplanetary merchant fleet is based on Venus. Venus doesn't need launch systems on the scale of Mercury's, but it does have significant stakes in them. That depends entirely on how industry is set up. Should I go complete CoaDE, or should I restrict 3D printing to a certain extent? Both ways graphene should be mass-producable.
|
|
|
Post by SevenOfCarina on Apr 26, 2017 20:08:18 GMT
Just to be clear, Venus has a population in excess of 400 million. It isn't just a colony.
Venus is a cooperative society. Every one votes on everything, but each person has a variable vote depending on how much an issue affects them, how knowledgeable e they are on a subject, how favorable the person is in the eyes of the people, etc. Venus does have hundereds of thousands of floating habitations, but all of them are part of a single government. Each city is fairly independant, and has its own unique opinions and views. On Venus, people can be what they want to be. They just can't be what they want to be everywhere, because conflicting ideologies. (?)
|
|
|
Post by bigbombr on Apr 26, 2017 20:10:02 GMT
All good points. Martian orbit is off-limits to discourage rods from god. Phobos and Deimos are effectively neutral space, enforced by the threat of the fifth faction joining the war. (?) The vast resource cost is one reason for the proxy wars on Titan et all. Also, MPDTs are a bit tame when you have ICF rockets, no? Mercury's laser launch systems are hung up in legal issues. They are pirates in name only. It isn't commerce raiding so much as it is preventing the other person's shipment from reaching its destination so that you can jack up prices. Just because everbody can see what you're doing doesn't mean they're willing and capable of stopping you. The inner worlds are, to an extent, being effectively held at ransom by the Belt. But there's a very good reason no one tries to bring law to the belt Fusion rockets outperform fusion drives, but Mercury has easier access to massive amounts of power and metal than fusiles, especially hydrogen and helium isotopes.
|
|
|
Post by SevenOfCarina on Apr 26, 2017 20:16:19 GMT
Fusion rockets outperform fusion drives, but Mercury has easier access to massive amounts of power and metal than fusiles, especially hydrogen and helium isotopes. Deuterium is something that Mercury imports in vast quantities, yes. As I stated, not everbody is happy about Mercury having giant laser death sats. And some of them have the power to stop Mercury from building more. But laser-launch will exist in-universe, at least on a limited scale. Mass drivers are far more common, and are what keep the economy rolling. At least you can see an KKV and kill it with existing defenses. Not so much with lasers.
|
|
|
Post by bigbombr on Apr 26, 2017 20:20:59 GMT
Mercury can offer Venus metals. But what can Venus offer Mercury? Carrying water or carbon dioxide through the atmosphere and out of the gravity well seems harder than just getting the stuff from the belt or the outer planets. And does Venus even have the capabilities for interplanetary trade on the scale of Mercury? Mercury just has to fire payloads out of mass drivers. Venus has to use rockets, and like I stated in a previous post, is probably highly balkanized due the practicalities of Venusian colonies. Are graphene and similar easily mass produced? If no, than that drastically lowers performance of every faction, but especially Venusian colonies would grow slower. Would it be possible to establish conditions such that Mercury was a boom town that went bust? Venus offers services. IT. R&D. And a very large fraction of the interplanetary merchant fleet is based on Venus. Venus doesn't need launch systems on the scale of Mercury's, but it does have significant stakes in them. That depends entirely on how industry is set up. Should I go complete CoaDE, or should I restrict 3D printing to a certain extent? Both ways graphene should be mass-producable. How would Venus keep Mercury from gaining independence or at least autonomy? They have vital resources, access to massive amounts of solar energy, and their mass drivers can ward off an invasion fleet. Just to be clear, Venus is a cooperative society. Every one votes on everything, but each person has a variable vote depending on how much an issue affects them, how knowledgable they are on a subject, how favorable the person is in the eyes of the people, etc. Venus does have hundereds of thousands of floating habitations, but all of them are part of a single government. Each city is fairly independant, and has its own unique opinions and views. On Venus, people can be what they want to be. They just can't be what they want to be everywhere, because conflicting ideologies. (?) I think competing city-states would make for a very interesting plot element, especially when foreign powers get involved. The political system seems intriguing, but how is their voting factor determined? Wouldn't that be very easy to abuse by some people? (Internal corruption would probably make an interesting plot element.) How does the government keep control of every city? Most of them (or at least the larger ones) would be self-sufficient, and war on Venus would be a slow, drawn out affair. This is because there is no oxygen in the Venusian atmosphere, so no jet engines. There would be quite a lot of air drag, so transportation would happen either by airship or by suborbital hob. Travel time drastically limits the size an empire/nation can be. Part of the reason the Roman Empire got so big and laster so long was their excellent road network, allowing for rapid movement of troops and supplies.
|
|
|
Post by bigbombr on Apr 26, 2017 20:22:54 GMT
If you're unsure about graphene, someone modded it for CoaDE. Try it, see how it changes your designs and use this to get an intuitive grasp on the impact it would have on your story.
|
|