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Post by Enderminion on Mar 19, 2017 3:04:08 GMT
the Challange is to build the smallest least massive missile with 50kg payload, 5Km/s Dv, 10G acceleration at full mass, 5mm of non-areogel armour OR 50cm of aerogel/UHMWPE. Anything goes but you Must meet those stats, more points for lowest mass, lowest cost, not ntr edit: 5cm -> 50cm
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Post by samchiu2000 on Mar 19, 2017 3:19:48 GMT
i got a missile with >10 lighter the mass of your missile's PAYLOAD requirement...
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Post by ross128 on Mar 19, 2017 4:09:31 GMT
Well, I can already tell you that anything with a 50kg payload is probably going to weigh in somewhere between 100kg and 150kg.
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Post by vegemeister on Mar 19, 2017 4:33:33 GMT
5 km/s and 10 g? That missile ain't exactly gonna be a spring chicken.
Edit: Any particular payload diameter? Or is that a free parameter?
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Post by vegemeister on Mar 19, 2017 5:38:20 GMT
Okay, here it is: Payload is a 20 kg platinum flak bomb that makes 6624 2.87 g shards in a wide pattern, and a 30 kg lead flak bomb that makes 590 50.8 g shards in a narrow pattern. They're fuzed for the same distance. The idea is that the fine flak strips radiators, and the coarse flak punches through the hull. I haven't tested it, but somebody on this forum said it works. I deviated from the specification with regard to armor. There's 9.9 mm of nitrile on the nose, and 2 mm elsewhere. This is slightly heavier than 5mm all around would be (less hassle to tune than the fuel tank size, to hit 5 km/s), but if the missile is headed in the right direction, the hits are going to be mostly on the nose, so this should survive longer. The armor is pure anti-laser, since the slow re-targeting of kinetic PD makes it fairly easy to defeat with a large swarm of missiles and a high-velocity intercept. I'd consider this armor a little heavy, but the missile probably needs it if it's going to leisurely stroll across the kill zone at 2-ish km/s. The remote is copied from another missile with the same initial acceleration but 8.77 km/s of Δv. I didn't test it, but it may need to be re-tuned (perhaps less Δv for the boost phase, and/or less damping in terminal phase). Materials in contact with fluorine are chosen to be somewhat believable. You could squeeze more performance out by switching to a boron fluorine tank and lithium turbopump. CombustionRocketModule Winter Chicken Missile Engine UsesCustomName true Reaction Fluorine Hydrogen StoichiometricMixtureRatio 1 ThermalRocket ChamberComposition Boron ThroatRadius_m 0.0071 ChamberWallThickness_m 0.00135 ChamberContractionRatio 65 NozzleExpansionRatio 230 NozzleExpansionAngle_degrees 9.3 RegenerativeCooling_Percent 1 Injector Composition Magnesium PumpRadius_m 0.07 RotationalSpeed_RPM 105 Gimbal InnerRadius_m 0.101 ArmorComposition Graphite Aerogel ArmorThickness_m 0.0001 MomentumWheels Composition Potassium RotationalSpeed_RPM 13000 GimbalAngle_degrees 2
ExplosiveModule Winter Chicken Fine Flak UsesCustomName true Length_m 0.4 ExplosiveMass_kg 1 ExplosiveComposition Octogen ShrapnelMass_kg 19 ShrapnelComposition Platinum Detonator HardRange_km 0.7 ActivationRange_km 0.7 MinimumRange_km 0 OverrideTimer_s 0 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
ExplosiveModule Winter Chicken Coarse Flak UsesCustomName true Length_m 0.26 ExplosiveMass_kg 0.05 ExplosiveComposition Octogen ShrapnelMass_kg 29.95 ShrapnelComposition Lead Detonator HardRange_km 0.7 ActivationRange_km 0.7 MinimumRange_km 0 OverrideTimer_s 0 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
RemoteControlModule NEFP Missile Mk 3 Remote Control UsesCustomName true AspectRatio 0.5 HomingBehavior PropellantForBoostPhase_Percent 0.8 BoostPhase GuidanceLaw Augmented Proportional Navigation Accelerate true DampingEngineMultiplier 0.7 MidcoursePhase GuidanceLaw Augmented Proportional Navigation Accelerate false DampingEngineMultiplier 0.4 TerminalPhase GuidanceLaw Augmented Proportional Navigation Accelerate true DampingEngineMultiplier 1
PropellantTankModule Winter Chicken Fluorine Tank UsesCustomName true Propellant Fluorine StructureComposition Maraging Steel ReactionMass_kg 130.52 HeightToRadiusRatio 10.4 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
PropellantTankModule Winter Chicken Hydrogen Tank UsesCustomName true Propellant Hydrogen StructureComposition Boron ReactionMass_kg 6.9426 HeightToRadiusRatio 13.2 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
SpacerModule Winter Chicken Nose Spacer UsesCustomName true Dimensions_m 0 0.3
CraftBlueprint Winter Chicken Missile Modules Winter Chicken Missile Engine 1 0 null 0 Winter Chicken Fine Flak 1 0.8658 null 0 Winter Chicken Coarse Flak 1 -0.067101 null 0 NEFP Missile Mk 3 Remote Control 1 -0.096254 null 0 Winter Chicken Fluorine Tank 1 -0.12541 null 0 Winter Chicken Hydrogen Tank 1 -0.18371 null 0 Winter Chicken Nose Spacer 1 4.9729 null 0 Armor ArmorLayers Nitrile Rubber 0.002 0 0 1 1 Nitrile Rubber 0.0079 0 0.749 1 1
Edit: forgot to set flak fuzes to actually explode, fixed.
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Post by Dhan on Mar 19, 2017 17:23:35 GMT
Here's my submission: Totally cheesed the armor requirements to meet the specifications, 5 cm of graphite aerogel does not armor against anything stronger than a stray fart. Code: PropellantTankModule 40.0 kg Fluorine Tank UsesCustomName false Propellant Fluorine StructureComposition UHMWPE ReactionMass_kg 40 HeightToRadiusRatio 10 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
PropellantTankModule 2.12 kg Hydrogen Tank UsesCustomName false Propellant Hydrogen StructureComposition UHMWPE ReactionMass_kg 2.12 HeightToRadiusRatio 18 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
CombustionRocketModule 5.05 km/s Fluorine Hydrogen Rocket Copy UsesCustomName true Reaction Fluorine Hydrogen StoichiometricMixtureRatio 1 ThermalRocket ChamberComposition Diamond ThroatRadius_m 0.0016 ChamberWallThickness_m 0.0022 ChamberContractionRatio 100 NozzleExpansionRatio 400 NozzleExpansionAngle_degrees 12 RegenerativeCooling_Percent 1 Injector Composition Lithium PumpRadius_m 0.02905 RotationalSpeed_RPM 210 GimbalAngle_degrees 0
RadiationShieldModule 50 kg Zinc UsesCustomName true Composition Zinc Dimensions_m 0.07 0.455
PropellantTankModule Flourine Drop Tank UsesCustomName true Propellant Fluorine StructureComposition UHMWPE ReactionMass_kg 23.688 HeightToRadiusRatio 20 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0 External ExplosiveBoltMass_kg 1e-010 ExplosiveBoltComposition Nitrocellulose
PropellantTankModule Hydrogen Drop Tank UsesCustomName true Propellant Hydrogen StructureComposition UHMWPE ReactionMass_kg 1.26 HeightToRadiusRatio 20 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0 External ExplosiveBoltMass_kg 1e-008 ExplosiveBoltComposition Nitrocellulose
CraftBlueprint Zinc Shipping Missile Modules Aggressive Remote Control 1 3.1307 null 0 40.0 kg Fluorine Tank 1 -0.5 null 0 2.12 kg Hydrogen Tank 1 0 null 0 5.05 km/s Fluorine Hydrogen Rocket Copy 4 0 null 0 50 kg Zinc 1 2.9437 null 0 Flourine Drop Tank 2 0.72348 null 1.57 Hydrogen Drop Tank 2 0.76033 null 0 50.0 cm x 0 m Spacer 1 3.3217 null 0 Armor ArmorLayers Graphite Aerogel 0.05 0 0 1 1
[/spoiler
Edit: Tweaked the design slightly and got some substantial cost savings by changing out the 50kg zinc rod with a cargo module weighing 50kg. Also did some slight modifications to drop a few kilograms. Code: PropellantTankModule 18.8 kg Fluorine Tank UsesCustomName false Propellant Fluorine StructureComposition UHMWPE ReactionMass_kg 18.8 HeightToRadiusRatio 0.7 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
PropellantTankModule 1.000 kg Hydrogen Tank UsesCustomName false Propellant Hydrogen StructureComposition UHMWPE ReactionMass_kg 1 HeightToRadiusRatio 0.89 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
CombustionRocketModule 5.05 km/s Fluorine Hydrogen Rocket Copy 2 UsesCustomName true Reaction Fluorine Hydrogen StoichiometricMixtureRatio 1 ThermalRocket ChamberComposition Boron ThroatRadius_m 0.00187 ChamberWallThickness_m 0.000715 ChamberContractionRatio 100 NozzleExpansionRatio 270 NozzleExpansionAngle_degrees 12 RegenerativeCooling_Percent 1 Injector Composition Lithium PumpRadius_m 0.0501 RotationalSpeed_RPM 32 GimbalAngle_degrees 0
CargoModule 45.1 kg Cargo Bay (50 kg Total) Mass_kg 45.1 AspectRatio 2
PropellantTankModule Flourine Drop Tank UsesCustomName true Propellant Fluorine StructureComposition UHMWPE ReactionMass_kg 33.46 HeightToRadiusRatio 20 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0 External ExplosiveBoltMass_kg 1e-008 ExplosiveBoltComposition Nitrocellulose
PropellantTankModule Hydrogen Drop Tank UsesCustomName true Propellant Hydrogen StructureComposition UHMWPE ReactionMass_kg 1.78 HeightToRadiusRatio 20 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0 External ExplosiveBoltMass_kg 1e-011 ExplosiveBoltComposition Nitrocellulose
SpacerModule 20.0 cm x 0 m Spacer UsesCustomName false Dimensions_m 0 0.2
CraftBlueprint Amazon Prime - Interplanetary Modules Aggressive Remote Control 1 3.1307 null 0 18.8 kg Fluorine Tank 1 -0.5 null 0 1.000 kg Hydrogen Tank 1 0 null 0 5.05 km/s Fluorine Hydrogen Rocket Copy 2 5 0 null 0 45.1 kg Cargo Bay (50 kg Total) 1 2.9437 null 0 Flourine Drop Tank 2 0.81308 null 1.57 Hydrogen Drop Tank 2 0.80979 null 0 20.0 cm x 0 m Spacer 1 3.3217 null 0 Armor ArmorLayers Graphite Aerogel 0.05 0 0 1 1
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core2
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by core2 on Mar 21, 2017 0:16:59 GMT
Maybe there should be a rule to exclude complete useless armor like graphite aerogel.
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Post by thorneel on Mar 21, 2017 0:24:14 GMT
Maybe there should be a rule to exclude complete useless armor like graphite aerogel. Graphite aerogel isn't completely useless. In composite armour, it is more efficient vacuum between layers In turret armour, it can be used as placeholder armour when you don't want any weight For unarmoured ships, it can be used as esthetic armour, being nicer-looking than a naked ship, plus it prevents the enemy to target internal modules
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core2
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by core2 on Mar 21, 2017 0:55:07 GMT
Maybe there should be a rule to exclude complete useless armor like graphite aerogel. Graphite aerogel isn't completely useless. In composite armour, it is more efficient vacuum between layers In turret armour, it can be used as placeholder armour when you don't want any weight For unarmoured ships, it can be used as esthetic armour, being nicer-looking than a naked ship, plus it prevents the enemy to target internal modules You are completly right with all your points. But i meant useless as missile armor. Because in the context of this chalenge its just a way to cheat around the armor requirement.
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Post by Dhan on Mar 21, 2017 4:08:13 GMT
Maybe there should be a rule to exclude complete useless armor like graphite aerogel. Agreed. I think it would be best to just assign an armor type and thickness to avoid cheese. Might also want to standardize the "payload" as well because the 50kg worth of cargo container I used on my edit was much cheaper than the 50kg metal slug I used earlier. Then again, if you standardize too much in something as simple as a missile it just devolves into an exercise in engine design and tank setup.
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Post by Enderminion on Mar 21, 2017 11:07:46 GMT
how bout this, if you use cargo containers, unless you say its a KKV I fill it with 50kg of nuclear warheads and measure cost off that?
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Post by dragonkid11 on Mar 21, 2017 11:25:43 GMT
There's definitely a difference between using 50 kg of flak or solid radiation shield than 50 kg of nuke.
Nuke will have a more bulky size due to their oval shaped and thus a missile with small cross-section would be harder to build.
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Post by Enderminion on Mar 21, 2017 11:37:20 GMT
so fill it with warheads so I don't fill it with nukes
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Post by Dhan on Mar 22, 2017 6:25:41 GMT
how bout this, if you use cargo containers, unless you say its a KKV I fill it with 50kg of nuclear warheads and measure cost off that? KKV is the cheapest payload by far. So if we are optimizing for cost, an inert payload is definitely the way to go. Otherwise, I'd just go with flak or explosive payloads with the lowest amount of explosive allowed with a cheap and dense material for the fragments. But I do like my idea of a futuristic marketplace corporation delivering goods via missiles, 50 kg at a time.
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Post by vegemeister on Mar 22, 2017 6:55:05 GMT
KKV is the cheapest payload by far. So if we are optimizing for cost, an inert payload is definitely the way to go. Otherwise, I'd just go with flak or explosive payloads with the lowest amount of explosive allowed with a cheap and dense material for the fragments. But I do like my idea of a futuristic marketplace corporation delivering goods via missiles, 50 kg at a time. UPS Next Synod Missile.
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